Care home fees for self funders

fred246

I have an elderly relative with dementia. I hold power of attorney. She recently had a hospital admission and was discharged by the hospital into a care home. We were told the fees but the council paid for the first month. We had a meeting with social services and we agreed that the home was the best place for her. We confirmed that she had assets over £23K and social services said we just had to pay the home. Yesterday I was given a contract to sign. The weekly fee was higher than I remembered being quoted. I said I'll sign the contract at home and post it back. When I got home I looked at their fees on the website. Basically self funders pay 30% above the rates the council pays. There appears to be no justification for this. Are these fees negotiable? 30% seems a large premium. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

74jax

In the home my mum goes to, only a limited amount of rooms are kept for social services. Self funded rooms are bigger, only slightly, but yep everything else remains the same.

We did negotiate the rate but it was a BUPA home, not sure if it depends on who owns it.

Keep_pedalling

Care homes make their profits from self funders, and LA funded residents are simply filling what would be otherwise empty rooms, sometimes at break even but sometimes at a loss. Your ownly real option is to look for a cheaper home, one that is not for profit may be the best bet here.

Having said that if your relative has plenty of assets then it would be in her best interests to get the best care she can afford, and if you are happy with the level of care she is getting then staying put would avoid another distressing move for her.

It may seem unfair, but my mother is in LA funded care and although she is happy where she is, If I require residential care I want the choice of where I go and thanks to house price inflation that should not be a problem.

Gavin83

fred246 wrote: »

I have an elderly relative with dementia. I hold power of attorney. She recently had a hospital admission and was discharged by the hospital into a care home. We were told the fees but the council paid for the first month. We had a meeting with social services and we agreed that the home was the best place for her. We confirmed that she had assets over £23K and social services said we just had to pay the home. Yesterday I was given a contract to sign. The weekly fee was higher than I remembered being quoted. I said I'll sign the contract at home and post it back. When I got home I looked at their fees on the website. Basically self funders pay 30% above the rates the council pays. There appears to be no justification for this. Are these fees negotiable? 30% seems a large premium. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Unfortunately the LA rate isn't enough for the care home to function but as the LA will generally fill a good percentage of a care home they have bargaining power. An individual does not so a care home will make their profits from self funders. How fair this practice is can be debated but that's the way it works.

In answer to your question though yes, the fees are negotiable. Everything is negotiable. How successful that negotiation will be will largely depend on how good your negotiation skills are and more importantly how desperate they are for residents at that particular time. If 30% of the care home is empty you'll likely get somewhere, if it's the last room it's more unlikely. But there is nothing stopping them charging what they like, it's a private transaction.

Similarly there is nothing stopping a care home from refusing the LA rate but this is another conversation entirely.

Spendless

I'd also check you aren't liable for 'Third Party Top-Ups'. When my Nan went into a home, she had assets over £23K, but the home my Mum would have liked for her, Mum got told that my Nan couldn't pay the additional charge a third party ie my parents, would have to. They couldn't afford it. None of us had heard of this before and I found little about it on the net.

Gavin83

Spendless wrote: »

I'd also check you aren't liable for 'Third Party Top-Ups'. When my Nan went into a home, she had assets over £23K, but the home my Mum would have liked for her, Mum got told that my Nan couldn't pay the additional charge a third party ie my parents, would have to. They couldn't afford it. None of us had heard of this before and I found little about it on the net.

This won't apply to self funders, only people funded via a council rate. It's to make up the difference between the council rate and what the care home want for the placement.

As a side note I'd make sure she's claiming attendance allowance. As a self funder she'll be entitled to it.

AylesburyDuck

fred246 wrote: »

I have an elderly relative with dementia. I hold power of attorney. She recently had a hospital admission and was discharged by the hospital into a care home. We were told the fees but the council paid for the first month. We had a meeting with social services and we agreed that the home was the best place for her. We confirmed that she had assets over £23K and social services said we just had to pay the home. Yesterday I was given a contract to sign. The weekly fee was higher than I remembered being quoted. I said I'll sign the contract at home and post it back. When I got home I looked at their fees on the website. Basically self funders pay 30% above the rates the council pays. There appears to be no justification for this. Are these fees negotiable? 30% seems a large premium. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Can i ask why self funded? If dementia is diagnosed then surely NHS continuity of care takes over fees.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/dementia-guide/Pages/dementia-and-social-services.aspx

WillowCat

AylesburyDuck wrote: »

Can i ask why self funded? If dementia is diagnosed then surely NHS continuity of care takes over fees.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/dementia-guide/Pages/dementia-and-social-services.aspx

Most dementia care is social rather than medical.

Person_one

AylesburyDuck wrote: »

Can i ask why self funded? If dementia is diagnosed then surely NHS continuity of care takes over fees.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/dementia-guide/Pages/dementia-and-social-services.aspx

NHS CHC is not based on diagnosis.

AylesburyDuck

Person_one wrote: »

NHS CHC is not based on diagnosis.

It's dependent on lots of factors, however to receive it for Dementia it does have to be diagnosed properly.

Person_one

AylesburyDuck wrote: »

It's dependent on lots of factors, however to receive it for Dementia it does have to be diagnosed properly.

Diagnosis is more or less irrelevant actually, its based on an assessment of the person's needs and whether they are medical or social.