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No buying unnecessary toiletries-November 2016

mrs-moneypenny
Posts: 15,519 Forumite
Here we go again for another month. As usual this initial post has been shamelessly copied from the many previous months. A big thank you to Deleted_User! for starting us off last month.
Welcome all newbies and regulars to this very friendly and chatty thread where we give lots of lovely tips on how to use up your stash and lots of support and encouragement if you need them.
Keep up the pampering and keep down the spending: let’s make the naughty step an empty and lonely place this month (rather than one so long that it can be seen from space)! Will this be the month when the "usual suspects" rein it in a bit? Let's see..... (but I doubt it!)
Remember - those products do nothing for you while they are stashed in drawers, boxes and cupboards!
We are eternally grateful to Katie Clampet who set up this fab challenge in January 2010. Here's her original challenge post:
"No buying any new toiletries, cosmetics, perfume etc... until I have used up ALL the ones I already have. I got a huge amount of (really nice) stuff for Christmas but I am going to resist the urge to browse Boots, Asda, Superdrug etc, and pop another tub of cream, face scrub, shampoo or conditioner into my basket. I reckon the stuff I have will last me until possibly June. I have decided that the money I save I will put into my special holiday account. Anyone else?"
Lots of us have taken part in the challenge over the past few months (and some of us even years!!) and are making great progress in reducing our stashes and unnecessary/excessive spending.
Regulars ignore this, but a quick resume is always helpful for newbies:
Why not add the challenge to your signature as a reminder?
How about taking a bit of time to do a stock-take and see if there are any gaps in your stash that you might need to spend on this month? Some of us set a budget for the month for essential purchases or to help with withdrawal symptoms, others like to go cold-turkey!! Other ideas which some people find useful: Listing everything out so you can cross things off as used to increase the sense of achievement, and putting a sum of money in a pot each time you use up an item to save for something you really want, or simply to assist in making future essential purchases "cash neutral".
Remember the challenge is about making the most of your money, enjoying your products, finding which products really suit you best and are worth buying, giving yourself a well-deserved pampering and breaking the habit of buying for the sake of buying. In money-saving tradition, it should also be about making your products l-a-s-t as long as possible (although the temptation of using an unloved shower gel extravagantly to finish it off is sometimes too much to bear!).
Brand new products (or opened perfume) sell well on eBay.
Unsuitable products can be repurposed and used for other jobs (shower gel/shampoo as handwash etc).
Some items can be returned to certain stores for exchange (for essential items or gifts!!) without a receipt.
Unwanted items can be recycled as gifts or for gift hampers (saving the money you'd have spent on gifts).
Unsuitable items can be donated to charity or a local women's refuge as mentioned earlier
It helps to avoid the places where temptation lurks for you; be it QVC, Boots, Body Shop, email newsletter, the supermarket toiletries aisles, Grabbit board, online toiletries browsing, seductive department store beauty counter offers etc. Remember retailers are making offers and promotions all the time, so there will always be another deal! Honest!
Good luck all for March and indeed the coming months, and remember to keep your stash lists updated, keep popping in for inspiration and support and to report your UU's and IN's, especially any sales bargains - we want a nosy!
Welcome to all newbies - the more the merrier. Please introduce yourselves so we can welcome you properly!
Oh - and anyone thinking "OMG my stash is FAR bigger than all of theirs, I cant possibly join" - believe you me, we have been doing this challenge for well over a year some of us - you wont scare us, and I can almost guarantee that someone somewhere will have had more and survived.... we are very supportive (and protective - so don't be scared!!) oh - and did we mention that are nosy??!!
Useful abbreviations and jargon!
WBA - Will Buy Again
UU - Use Ups
IN - Self explanatory - stuff you've gained into your stash - warning: lines may be given out for unnecessary purchases or you may be sent to the naughty step!
NBI - A non-bought item such as a present, gift with purchase or free sample
WNBA - Will Not Buy Again!
Glitch - when a shop/online store make a pricing mistake so you end up paying less or even get freebies!
PYN(M/T/W/Th/F/Sa/Su) DELETE AS APPROPRIATE! - Paint Your Nails Monday/Tuesday...... it allows everyone to try and finish those dastardly nail varnishes with group support! You can never be too groomed for this thread. Also see PY(T)N... - for toenails!
Splutterer - the stage where an item is nearing the end of it's life and spluttering - also the most annoying and seemingly never ending stage!
GWP - Gift With Purchase - a sample or mini sized item
HG - Holy Grail - this is the product you would go back for time and time again, it does the job brilliantly, and is either economical, or so fantastic price becomes no object!
NPI - Near Purchasing Incident (OMG we all have those!)
LHJ - Long Haul Job - for those products - love 'em or hate 'em - that never seem to end no matter how often you use them
PRCP - Pink Rose Candle Philosophy inspired by Erma Bombeck who said: 'If I had my life to live over again I would have burned the pink candle sculpted like a rose that melted in storage'. Don't keep things 'for best' or 'for a special occasion'. That day never arrives. Give the best to yourself now and enjoy it. (Thanks to McCulloch29 for introducing this thought provoking sentiment to us)
GA - for an out that was given away to charity, as a present, or "just because" rather than binned or UU
TA - for an out that was thrown away due to going off (generally as it has been lurking at the back of a stash since time immemorial) or for any other reason such as a broken container or spillage
PP - Project Pan: a list of specific items targeted to be used up
If anyone can think of any more we can add to the list so newbies won't be intimidated by our jargon!
Graduates
Here is a list of our lovely,fragrant ladies who have polished and pampered their way through their products and managed to get their toiletries stash under control. Ladies - congratulations, you are an inspiration to the rest of us, xx . Thanks also to InaPickle who suggested we start the Graduate list. To join the list of graduates let us know by posting that you are graduating in big colourful letters, that way the OP can easily spot you and add you to the list, or better still - PM the OP as the thread can move really quickly! You may also wish to add how many products you have used up during the challenge. Good luck ladies! xx
1. mineallmine - graduated with honours March
2. Bronnie - graduated with honours March 2011
3. lostinrates - graduated with honours around June 2010
4. Ruby_Eskimo - graduated with honours June 2012
5. Seaside dreamer - graduated with honours October 2012
6. InaPickle - graduated with honours September 2014
Previous threads
In case you need to refer back to a previous stash list or product review, here are links to past challenge threads. Click on the date to take you straight to it:
January 2012
February 2012
March 2012
April 2012
May 2012
June 2012
July 2012
August 2012
September 2012
October 2012
November 2012
December 2012
January 2013
February 2013
March 2013
April 2013
May 2013
June 2013
July 2013
August 2013
September 2013
October 2013
November 2013
December 2013
January 2014
February 2014
March 2014
April 2014
May 2014
June 2014
July 2014
August 2014
September 2014
October 2014
November 2014
December 2014
January 2015
February 2015
March 2015
April 2015
May 2015
June 2015
July 2015
August 2015
[URL="http://https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5316034[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/October 2015:http://https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5333034[/URL]
November 2015
December 2015
January 2016
February 2016
March 2016
April 2016
May 2016
June 2016
[URL=”https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5487158[/URL]
August 2016
September 2016
Welcome all newbies and regulars to this very friendly and chatty thread where we give lots of lovely tips on how to use up your stash and lots of support and encouragement if you need them.
Keep up the pampering and keep down the spending: let’s make the naughty step an empty and lonely place this month (rather than one so long that it can be seen from space)! Will this be the month when the "usual suspects" rein it in a bit? Let's see..... (but I doubt it!)
Remember - those products do nothing for you while they are stashed in drawers, boxes and cupboards!
We are eternally grateful to Katie Clampet who set up this fab challenge in January 2010. Here's her original challenge post:
"No buying any new toiletries, cosmetics, perfume etc... until I have used up ALL the ones I already have. I got a huge amount of (really nice) stuff for Christmas but I am going to resist the urge to browse Boots, Asda, Superdrug etc, and pop another tub of cream, face scrub, shampoo or conditioner into my basket. I reckon the stuff I have will last me until possibly June. I have decided that the money I save I will put into my special holiday account. Anyone else?"
Lots of us have taken part in the challenge over the past few months (and some of us even years!!) and are making great progress in reducing our stashes and unnecessary/excessive spending.
Regulars ignore this, but a quick resume is always helpful for newbies:
Why not add the challenge to your signature as a reminder?
How about taking a bit of time to do a stock-take and see if there are any gaps in your stash that you might need to spend on this month? Some of us set a budget for the month for essential purchases or to help with withdrawal symptoms, others like to go cold-turkey!! Other ideas which some people find useful: Listing everything out so you can cross things off as used to increase the sense of achievement, and putting a sum of money in a pot each time you use up an item to save for something you really want, or simply to assist in making future essential purchases "cash neutral".
Remember the challenge is about making the most of your money, enjoying your products, finding which products really suit you best and are worth buying, giving yourself a well-deserved pampering and breaking the habit of buying for the sake of buying. In money-saving tradition, it should also be about making your products l-a-s-t as long as possible (although the temptation of using an unloved shower gel extravagantly to finish it off is sometimes too much to bear!).
Brand new products (or opened perfume) sell well on eBay.
Unsuitable products can be repurposed and used for other jobs (shower gel/shampoo as handwash etc).
Some items can be returned to certain stores for exchange (for essential items or gifts!!) without a receipt.
Unwanted items can be recycled as gifts or for gift hampers (saving the money you'd have spent on gifts).
Unsuitable items can be donated to charity or a local women's refuge as mentioned earlier
It helps to avoid the places where temptation lurks for you; be it QVC, Boots, Body Shop, email newsletter, the supermarket toiletries aisles, Grabbit board, online toiletries browsing, seductive department store beauty counter offers etc. Remember retailers are making offers and promotions all the time, so there will always be another deal! Honest!
Good luck all for March and indeed the coming months, and remember to keep your stash lists updated, keep popping in for inspiration and support and to report your UU's and IN's, especially any sales bargains - we want a nosy!
Welcome to all newbies - the more the merrier. Please introduce yourselves so we can welcome you properly!
Oh - and anyone thinking "OMG my stash is FAR bigger than all of theirs, I cant possibly join" - believe you me, we have been doing this challenge for well over a year some of us - you wont scare us, and I can almost guarantee that someone somewhere will have had more and survived.... we are very supportive (and protective - so don't be scared!!) oh - and did we mention that are nosy??!!
Useful abbreviations and jargon!
WBA - Will Buy Again
UU - Use Ups
IN - Self explanatory - stuff you've gained into your stash - warning: lines may be given out for unnecessary purchases or you may be sent to the naughty step!
NBI - A non-bought item such as a present, gift with purchase or free sample
WNBA - Will Not Buy Again!
Glitch - when a shop/online store make a pricing mistake so you end up paying less or even get freebies!
PYN(M/T/W/Th/F/Sa/Su) DELETE AS APPROPRIATE! - Paint Your Nails Monday/Tuesday...... it allows everyone to try and finish those dastardly nail varnishes with group support! You can never be too groomed for this thread. Also see PY(T)N... - for toenails!
Splutterer - the stage where an item is nearing the end of it's life and spluttering - also the most annoying and seemingly never ending stage!
GWP - Gift With Purchase - a sample or mini sized item
HG - Holy Grail - this is the product you would go back for time and time again, it does the job brilliantly, and is either economical, or so fantastic price becomes no object!
NPI - Near Purchasing Incident (OMG we all have those!)
LHJ - Long Haul Job - for those products - love 'em or hate 'em - that never seem to end no matter how often you use them
PRCP - Pink Rose Candle Philosophy inspired by Erma Bombeck who said: 'If I had my life to live over again I would have burned the pink candle sculpted like a rose that melted in storage'. Don't keep things 'for best' or 'for a special occasion'. That day never arrives. Give the best to yourself now and enjoy it. (Thanks to McCulloch29 for introducing this thought provoking sentiment to us)
GA - for an out that was given away to charity, as a present, or "just because" rather than binned or UU
TA - for an out that was thrown away due to going off (generally as it has been lurking at the back of a stash since time immemorial) or for any other reason such as a broken container or spillage
PP - Project Pan: a list of specific items targeted to be used up
If anyone can think of any more we can add to the list so newbies won't be intimidated by our jargon!
Graduates
Here is a list of our lovely,fragrant ladies who have polished and pampered their way through their products and managed to get their toiletries stash under control. Ladies - congratulations, you are an inspiration to the rest of us, xx . Thanks also to InaPickle who suggested we start the Graduate list. To join the list of graduates let us know by posting that you are graduating in big colourful letters, that way the OP can easily spot you and add you to the list, or better still - PM the OP as the thread can move really quickly! You may also wish to add how many products you have used up during the challenge. Good luck ladies! xx
1. mineallmine - graduated with honours March
2. Bronnie - graduated with honours March 2011
3. lostinrates - graduated with honours around June 2010
4. Ruby_Eskimo - graduated with honours June 2012
5. Seaside dreamer - graduated with honours October 2012
6. InaPickle - graduated with honours September 2014
Previous threads
In case you need to refer back to a previous stash list or product review, here are links to past challenge threads. Click on the date to take you straight to it:
January 2012
February 2012
March 2012
April 2012
May 2012
June 2012
July 2012
August 2012
September 2012
October 2012
November 2012
December 2012
January 2013
February 2013
March 2013
April 2013
May 2013
June 2013
July 2013
August 2013
September 2013
October 2013
November 2013
December 2013
January 2014
February 2014
March 2014
April 2014
May 2014
June 2014
July 2014
August 2014
September 2014
October 2014
November 2014
December 2014
January 2015
February 2015
March 2015
April 2015
May 2015
June 2015
July 2015
August 2015
[URL="http://https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5316034[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/October 2015:http://https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5333034[/URL]
November 2015
December 2015
January 2016
February 2016
March 2016
April 2016
May 2016
June 2016
[URL=”https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5487158[/URL]
August 2016
September 2016
SPC~12 ot 124
In a world that has decided that it's going to lose its mind, be more kind my friend, try to Be More Kind
In a world that has decided that it's going to lose its mind, be more kind my friend, try to Be More Kind
0
Comments
-
I think I've done it, hope you can allfind it ok and the links work
Hopefullly we can all make a concerted effort to have more going out than in this month as we all know full well exactly what is going to happen in December
hope everyone is well and managing to UU more than they add
would like to stay below 250 by the end of the year
first full count list done for a while was at End of Feb 2014 had 358
I'm starting 2016 with 292 items
INs - 33
UUs - 100
TAs - 7
GA - 1
Running total for 2016 = 217
Perfumes - 14
Victoria's Secret bombshell
Kills love slowly
Alfred sung Sui
Hypnose
vivienne Westwood boudoir
Thierry Mugler X2 8ml
Thierry Mugler Angel 25ml
Narciso Rodriguez for her
Hugo Boss Deep Red
Agent Provocateur
Jimmy Choo
Doir poison
Nina Ricci RicciRicci
face care - 14
Anew clinical defence deep recovery cream x2
ren rosa centifolia hot cloth cleanser
skin doctor instant face lift
skin doctor instant eye lift
skin therapy eye make up remover
Aveeno cleansing lotion
Anew ultimate age repair cream cleanser
dead sea magik gentle cleansing face wash
balance me pure skin face wash
dead sea magik mild exfoliant
body ultimate skin care face & body polish
body ultimate skin care collagen therapy gel
Lacura Q10 renew multi intensive serum
Body butters - 10
Champneys good as new body butter
S&G the righteous Butter 300ml
salonniere body butter
Elle Macpherson nourishing honey butter
sanctuary body butter X 4
sanctuary mande lular body souffle
champneys moisture miracle body butter
scrubs & polishes - 10
Lovely bubbly salt scrub
Cranberry and lime shower scrub
sanctuary mande lular body scrub
spa O2 revitalising body scrub
sanctuary body scrub
Gok gorgeous body polish with almond oil
B&h skin spa body polish
B&h sweet mandarin & grapefruit body polish
no7 cleansing body polish
Sanctuary gentle polish body scrub
lotions and creams including hand - 27
Summerday ocean hand lotion
Champneys good as new hand cream
Orange and lime hand cream
Pink pepper and amarys hand cream
Mandarin and patchouli hand cream
Avon hand cream
Bath boutique body lotion
Royal jelly body lotion
cerise tube of GW body lotion
B&H french lavendar and cassis body balm
dead sea magik silky smooth body lotion
pure poison body lotion
secret obsession body lotion
jean paul gaultier classique body lotion
tresor in love body lotion
agent provocateur body glamour lotion
B&H white mulberry & marshmallow body lotion
O2spa hand and body lotion
sanctuary body lotion
Lush dream team hand and body lotion
cowshed grumpy cow body lotion
ArranAromatics shimmer gel
Hypnose senses body lotion
Lush potion body lotion
B&H cherry blossom oriental lily and lotus flower hand & body lotion
Natural extracts body lotion with vitamin E
Sanctuary silky smooth body lotion
Oils - 4
source of purity massage
Avon SSS dry oil body spray
Agent provocateur body massage oil
Dr organic organic vitamin e pure oil complex
bath and shower - 8
Avon 1000ml mandarin & white jasmine bubble bath
Avon 1000ml White Lily bubble bath
Avon 1000ml romantic rose bubble bath
Avon 1000ml soft rose bubble bath
Avon 1000ml lily of the valley bubble bath
Avon 1000ml warm vanilla & fig bubble bath
S&G Sugar Crush Body Wash
Sanctuary cleansing burst body wash
feet - 10
Champneys good as new foot butter
the rectory softening foot cream
the rectory smoothing foot polish
body blitz revive foot scrub
body blitz revive foot lotion
sanctraury intensive heel rescue balm
scholl revitalising gel
carnation anti blister stick
carnation cracked heel cream
SpaO2 foot lotion
bath bombs - 3
Bomb seasons tweetings bath bomb
Lush bright side bubble bar mini
Lush the comforter bubble bar mini
deodorant - 1
Dove invisible dry Roll on
hairspray and hair - 7
Fresh salad hair pack
Avon Shampoo
cldi hair spray
Vo5 heat protect spray
Lee Stafford dry shampoo
paul mitchell colour protect locking spray
catwalk frisky scrunching gel
talc 2
2 assorted
sachets and samples - 1
avon clear skin blemish treatment
soap - 8
Bomb green star soap bar
Bomb Amber and orange soap bar
Secret garden shower soap
Fragrant finds massage sponge soap bar
Summerday ocean liquid hand wash
carex liquid soap
apple tango hand wash
lush soap bar
Massage bars -
Lush
random items - 2
L'Oreal solar advanced sun protection
Clarnis sun wrinkle control cream
Nail stuff - 26
polishes assorted X20
collection 2000 2in1 top coat
nail attraction top coat
nail attraction strenghtener
avon exfoliating expert manicure gel
boots holy grail nail and cuticle cream
cutex nail polish remover
skin and face - 68
Benefit gimme brow
Nivea fruity shine strawberry lip balm
nivea tinted day cream
maybellene dream matte mousse
rimmel stay matte make up
rimmel double act foundation
Elizabeth Arden let there be light compact
No7 intellegient colour foundation
estee lauder lucidity
benefit show off
benefit sun beam highlighter
ritz loose powder
candida beauty glow loose powder
candida beauty glow powder compact
blushers assorted X4
eye pencils assorted X10
lip pencil
body shop choc lip butter
lip sticks assorted X 22
mascara
eyeshadows assorted X15
i think that all of it.
i havent bothered counting the toothpaste & mouth wash products as they are essentialsSPC~12 ot 124
In a world that has decided that it's going to lose its mind, be more kind my friend, try to Be More Kind0 -
Thank you!!!0
-
Glad you found it ok houseplant, I've not started one of these before.SPC~12 ot 124
In a world that has decided that it's going to lose its mind, be more kind my friend, try to Be More Kind0 -
Mrs Moneypenny Thanks for starting the thread off this month. I am in just for the 5 by Christmas again, I will find my list and post it later.0
-
Thanks for starting the thread! I had a bad month last month as I kept starting products and then getting bored of them and then starting something else. I really want a lot of UUs this month as I need the room. I also need to ignore all the Christmas gift sets that are going on sale.0
-
I'm going to make a concerted effort to paint my nails regularly in the next couple of months to try and shift some polishes from the stash, and I have some little sample sized bottles of perfume that I want to UU, they are not on my list and I'd also like them out of my cupboards!
I'm going to make a UU 10 by Christmas list to try and get a few more bits out of the way.SPC~12 ot 124
In a world that has decided that it's going to lose its mind, be more kind my friend, try to Be More Kind0 -
I'm in again for another month
This month I'm going to make a big effort to use up some products as I've noticed my UUs are the same as my INs for the year and as I have a beauty advent calendar (I know, bad me) my INs are going to go up a lot in December. I don't want to finish the year worse off than when I started!"Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it."0 -
I'm up to 171 UU for 2016. I hope to make it to 200, or close to that figure. My INs for the past month were two body lotions (which I bought to acquire a gift set as a stocking filler) and some make-up items. My PP list for November:
My PP list (updated 28/11/2016) - Total = 14
Face
Simple Soothing Facial Toner 50ml
Hair
Daniel Galvin Junior Organic Wild 'n' Crazy Kids Swim Shampoo & Body Wash 250ml
Hair Chemist Phase 3 Oil 30ml
Batiste Tropical Dry Shampoo 50ml
So? Fabulous Dry Shampoo 150ml
Dove Nourishing Oil Care Treatment Mask 200ml
Body
Marks & Spencer Nature's Ingredients Aloe Vera Shower Scrub 250ml
Baylis & Harding Beauticology Strawberry Cupcake Shower Creme 100ml
Witch Doctor Skin Treatment Gel 35g
Garnier Ultimate Regenerating Oil 150ml
Hands
Ted Baker London Hand Cream 50ml
Primark P. S. Love Anti-Bacterial Hand Gel
Perfume
The Cooperative Aphrodite Body Spray 75ml
Pink Inc Eau de Toilette 10ml
These are all either almost use ups or products I've hit pan on. I've updated my work bag with a few new products to get through and I'll continue with the make-up bag I've set up with specific products to use up.No Buying Unnecessary Toiletries 2019 Total UU since 2016 - 396 | Total February UU - 10 -
Thanks mrs-moneypenny for starting us off.
My PP list for November:
1. L'occitane Shea Bubble Bath 500ml
2. Elemis Sharp Shower 250ml
3. Body Shop Glazed Apple Body Butter - full size
4. Avon Herve Leger Body Lotion
5. Philip Kingsley Elasticizer 1L
6. L'oreal Ever Pure Hair Mask
7. Liz Earle IBST
8. Body Shop Blue Corn Scrub Mask
9. Clearasil Rapid Action Pads
10. Nuxe Fresh Mask
I also have my first uu
Elemis PCMC 15ml - quite like this and have used plenty and have more in the stash but have never actually bought and WNB. Have replaced with another the same size as a day cream.Debt Free and now a saver, conscious consumer, low waste lifestyler
Fashion on the Ration 28/660 -
My list to UU
Carry over from 7 by Autumn - 4 left now UU 1 item in October
1 - Benefit Fake up Concealer Full sized - Hate this
2 - Benefit Watts Up Highlighter sample 2.5g. - Prefer Powder highlighter
6- Urban Decay Eye Shadows, 505/50 from Naked on the run palette just remaining round the edges and in the corners
7 - Crabtree & Evelyn Avocado, Olive & Basil Body Lotion 250ml. Almost there
5 by Christmas list - Only 4 items left
1 - OPI mini polish - would like to get rid of more of the mini's I have
2 - Urban Decay one & Done - this is a light weight product I have been using in the summer when I don't want to use foundation, there isn't much left but won't use this as much now the weather is changing adding to the list to ensure I make an effort to UU before it goes off.
3 - UU- 3 Lancôme sample Day Creams UU plus 2 GA's
4 - 1 Travel size Body lotion - Once the Crabtree & Eveylyn one is gone would like to try and continue using Body lotion. I think UU a travel size is manageable
5 - UU 1 Urban Decay eye shadow - other than 50/50 - have loads of eye shadow and loads that have hit pan, would like to get some more finished.
I have quite a few eye shadows that have hit pan and 3 that are close to being UU. Plus another 3 that should hit pan soon. Surprisingly starting to make a dent on the eye shadow mountain (I do enjoy having a lot of eye shadows to choose from though.
Still being lazy with the body lotion though, must try harder. May end up chucking out the benefit concealer as I do hate it but don't want it to defeat me either. Need to get some nail varnish UU before I open my OPI Mani Month, have used OPI Dark side of the mood loads this month and it still seems to be going strong. Need to check my set of OPI Mariah Carey 3 Mini liquid sands set as think these may need chucking out.0
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