Dealership v private sale

wayneennis

I need to buy myself a second hand car. I have about £4,000 to spend.

My Dad and I are in disagreement as to where to buy one.

I say as a dealership adds on about £800 - 1,000 to the price of a car so I would be better buying from a private seller.

My Dad says if I buy private I have no comeback if I buy a lemon or there is something wrong with the car the seller doesn’t disclose. He also claims a lot of motor dealers sell cars they cannot sell professionally as private sales.

I can see my Dads point of view but I don’t want to pay a dealership £4,000 for a car that I could get for about £3,000 on private sale.

If I do buy privately how can I ensure I don’t get ripped off?

motorguy

wayneennis wrote: »

I need to buy myself a second hand car. I have about £4,000 to spend.

My Dad and I are in disagreement as to where to buy one.

I say as a dealership adds on about £800 - 1,000 to the price of a car so I would be better buying from a private seller.

My Dad says if I buy private I have no comeback if I buy a lemon or there is something wrong with the car the seller doesn’t disclose. He also claims a lot of motor dealers sell cars they cannot sell professionally as private sales.

I can see my Dads point of view but I don’t want to pay a dealership £4,000 for a car that I could get for about £3,000 on private sale.

If I do buy privately how can I ensure I don’t get ripped off?

Therein lies the eternal dilemma.

Hes right, and likewise you're right too.

If you want to buy private, and off-the-top-of-my-head :-

• Ask the seller if their name and address is on the V5C (you will be surprised at how many "private" sellers are actually traders masquerading as private sellers to avoid their responsibilities).
• Ask them how long they've owned the car.
• Confirm there is a full - documented - service history with the car. Not just "oh i get it serviced every year when its due MOT". Actual proof.
• Ask directly are there any issues with the car. You can tell a lot by their answer.
• Ask directly why they're selling it. A bit of a grey one, but its nice to hear "well we need more room as we've another child on the way".
• Before you hand over your hard earned, get a FULL hpi check done. Not a £2.99 text job.
• Ask to hear the car start from cold - ie, not be warmed up for you getting there. Lift the bonnet and check the engine is cold. Look and listen when they start it - listen for rattles from the engine, and look for blue smoke from the exhaust (and black smoke if its a diesel)

forgotmyname

I buy from whoever has the car i want. Be it private or a dealer.

Its all about the previous keeper(s) and how they treated it. Owners club and serviced at least yearly even though it only covers a few miles a year/
Receipts for little jobs that some people ignore.

It works for me. £2 ish will get you something that will last 5 years with no major bills.

arcon5

How much do you know about cars?
How much risk do you want to take?

You buy from established dealers for the protection.

I buy 5-10 cars per month and there's a lot of !!!! out there.
Some faults don't even surface until after buying- intermittent electrical faults; cutting out; limp mode. You may pick it up on a 15 minute test drive if your lucky, you may not.

But don't be one of these that buy privately. Save five hundred quid then moan and ask what rights you have when things don't go to plan.

victor2

motorguy wrote: »

Therein lies the eternal dilemma.

Hes right, and likewise you're right too.

If you want to buy private, and off-the-top-of-my-head :-

• Ask the seller if their name and address is on the V5C (you will be surprised at how many "private" sellers are actually traders masquerading as private sellers to avoid their responsibilities).
• Ask them how long they've owned the car.
• Confirm there is a full - documented - service history with the car. Not just "oh i get it serviced every year when its due MOT". Actual proof.
• Ask directly are there any issues with the car. You can tell a lot by their answer.
• Ask directly why they're selling it. A bit of a grey one, but its nice to hear "well we need more room as we've another child on the way".
• Before you hand over your hard earned, get a FULL hpi check done. Not a £2.99 text job.
• Ask to hear the car start from cold - ie, not be warmed up for you getting there. Lift the bonnet and check the engine is cold. Look and listen when they start it - listen for rattles from the engine, and look for blue smoke from the exhaust (and black smoke if its a diesel)

Lot of sense in that.
I have purchased mainly through dealers but also privately. Either way, I have always taken someone along with me who is much more knowledgeable about cars than I am. As above, on a private sale you get the chance to convince yourself they are genuine. If going a dealer route, choose one with a decent reputation and be prepared to negotiate. IME dealers won't necessarily give you a discount, but will throw in extras at no cost to you, especially where they can get those extras at little or no direct cost to them. Plus you get some sort of warranty with a dealer.
Our last car, albeit from a mainstream dealer and at a bit more than your budget, had an advisory on the new MOT they had done on it that the front pads were worn (not down to the limit but close) - they replaced the pads and discs at no cost to me. I also got an updated map on the built-in Satnav the car had.

BeenThroughItAll

I bought a mate of mine an old 318ti Compact back in 2012, and it's still going strong with nothing more than routine servicing and a few wear and tear items like brake pads. It only cost £1800 back then and there's no sign of it needing anything major in e next year, by which time it will have lasted 5 years.

You clearly have a very different definition of 'major bills'. I wouldn't class replacing, say, a suspension bush as a 'major bill'. That's just wear and tear, as is a clutch. A cambelt is 'maintenance'. You know even brand new cars require maintenance, right?

motorguy

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Cobblers. I bought a mate of mine an old 318ti Compact back in 2012, and it's still going strong with nothing more than routine servicing and a few wear and tear items like brake pads. It only cost £1800 back then and there's no sign of it needing anything major in e next year, by which time it will have lasted 5 years.

You clearly have a very different definition of 'major bills'. I wouldn't class replacing, say, a suspension bush as a 'major bill'. That's just wear and tear, as is a clutch. A cambelt is 'maintenance'. You know even brand new cars require maintenance, right?

You specifically said "£2k ish will get you something that will last 5 years with no major bills. "


You cant guarantee that. It might have worked for you five years ago, and on some old BMW, however more modern cars (particularly diesels) can be incredibly problematic and have big bills looming that could swamp any saving.


Your subjective view is that it worked for you, however you cant extrapolate that out and say £2K WILL buy you a car that will last 5 years with no major bills.


It is wrong to set an expectation on a forum like this that £2K WILL buy you a reliable car.

BeenThroughItAll

motorguy wrote: »

You specifically said "£2k ish will get you something that will last 5 years with no major bills. "

You cant guarantee that. It might have worked for you five years ago, and on some old BMW, however more modern cars (particularly diesels) can be incredibly problematic and have big bills looming that could swamp any saving.

Your subjective view is that it worked for you, however you cant extrapolate that out and say £2K WILL buy you a car that will last 5 years with no major bills.

It is wrong to set an expectation on a forum like this that £2K WILL buy you a reliable car.

No, I didn't. I responded to a poster who stated you can't achieve that goal, who was responding to the post you're referring to. My 'subjective view' is based on experiential evidence.

The poster to whom I was responding stated categorically that a £2K car "will be old, high mileage or both" but then went on to say that "a car of that vintage will possibly need cam belt and tensioner change, clutch, suspension overhaul etc etc". Now THAT's a subjective view.

motorguy

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

No, I didn't. I responded to a poster who stated you can't achieve that goal, who was responding to the post you're referring to. My 'subjective view' is based on experiential evidence.

The poster to whom I was responding stated categorically that a £2K car "will be old, high mileage or both" but then went on to say that "a car of that vintage will possibly need cam belt and tensioner change, clutch, suspension overhaul etc etc". Now THAT's a subjective view.

Apologies!


My mistake.

BeenThroughItAll

curlywurlytalktalk wrote: »

A major bill is a major bill whether it's for an unexpected failure or for routine maintenance. I didn't differentiate between the two terms. It was you who did that. Yes all cars need maintenance. Even new ones. I know that. I'm not one of those idiots who just MOT's their cars and thinks thats a service too.

A £2k car that needs a £400 clutch change I would class as a major bill. 4 shockers that require changing I would class as a major bill. £350 cam belt and tensioner change I would class as a major bill. Whether it's maintenance or not, it's still a major bill when viewing as a proportion of the initial purchase price.

The point is, if you have half a clue what you're looking at, it's easy to avoid those sorts of bills. I'm looking for another 2K car at the moment, and there are literally HUNDREDS of options which have had new clutches, recent timing belts, etc.

Besides which, if your suggestion is that the only solution is to avoid cheap cars, and therefore buy new or newer, your newer car may well be just as likely to need a timing belt within 5 years, and the bill may well be the same or greater; the only difference is you spent more in the first place on the car, so you're out of pocket by more - and you'll have suffered greater depreciation on the asset. Buy a car at 0 years old and do 60K in 5 years, and the same things will wear in those 60K miles as they would on a 10 year old car which has had them replaced.

You cannot compare based on proportion of purchase price, as if your purchase price is greater, you've spent more in the first place, obviously.

I bet you my total motoring bills (excluding fuel) including depreciation over the last five years and at least 10 vehicles (which I've changed because I WANT to, not because I have to) are significantly lower than if I'd bought one equivalent brand new car 5 years ago.

Considering I've been tooling around in high-end BMWs, Jeeps, Volvos, Audis, Saabs, Skodas and Subarus etc in that time, I'd have had to spend a lot more than the ~£1300 a year or so it's cost me to date. Bear in mind that I change my car every 9-12 months and never lose more than a couple of hundred quid in depreciation and I'm happy to be a lot better off than someone who's driving around in a sub-5 year old Eurobox.

My 6.5K total is a lot less than the depreciation in the >30K car I'd have had to buy new to get the same levels of equipment, luxury, performance and comfort I've been enjoying - and any one of the cars I've owned would quite happily have carried me around for five years without any greater investment than I would ever suffer even if I'd wanted to subject myself to driving a Corsa for the last 60 months.

wayneennis

Thanks for all you replies.