Forgot to pay - called - what to do

Coupon-mad

anothpark wrote: »

So the DVLA replied to me and Indigo Park Solutions UK limited requested the information after the case had been submitted to POPLA.

I've noticed that the PCN Admin Centre letter that was sent above says they are acting on behalf of their client 'Indigo Park Solutions Limited' and that it is actually a registered trademark of ZZPS Limited.

So to me this looks like they've requested my details after the case has gone to appeal - which I think is wrong in the first place and then past them onto another company which would be another breach?

Though it sounds like ZZPS bill DVLA enquiries as one of their services http://www.zzps.co.uk/services/dvla-enquries as well as http://www.zzps.co.uk/services/notice-processing/ipaymypcn iPayMyPCN which is where their letter tells me to pay and appeal

But the DVLA letter implies that Indigo requested the details but 'PCN Admin Centre Indigo'/ZZPS are the ones that have sent the letter using those details. But it could be that ZZPS requested the details as Indigo...

Interestingly enough they actually sent me 2 letters about the overdue notice, one the next day after the previous one arrived!

Should I write a letter to Indigo and reply to ZZPS on their iPayMyPCN website also informing them they have no right to do this?

It's not just wrong, it is a DPA breach. You could mention it to POPLA but mainly you should comment on the evidence (e.g. that they haven't shown any evidence that you are the liable person which under Railway Byelaws if the owner) and that there is no evidence of a breach of byelaws in any case.

The good thing about this being a DPA breach is that you can ''pass GO'' and collect £250 or so!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5585388

No reasonable cause to get your data from the DVLA. You can get compensation if you are up for firstly:

- complaining to the ICO that they obtained your data outwith the KADOE contract with the DVLA - this is easy to do online, a tick-box exercise with evidence able to be attached, then

- starting a small claim once you are familiar with how to word the claim. Best against a PPC and their client, in this case the party named on the contract Indigo have helpfully shown you in the POPLA appeal!

anothpark

Thanks for getting back to me, I followed the link on the ICO and I need to write to Indigo first before I can submit evidence.

But from what I can gather because this a byelaw case, unless they could prove the keeper was the driver they have no right to pursue the keeper. Is that what you meant in your first paragraph?

here is a draft of the letter I was going to send to Indigo - wonder if I should also mention the train company in here?

FORMAL COMPLAINT
With regards to your ‘Overdue Penalty Notice To Owner’ date issued xx/xx/xxxx and received on xx/xx/xxxx and second letter issued xx/xx/xxxx received on xx/xx/xxxx. You have sent me an overdue notice when no ‘Notice to Owner’ has ever been issued and you are asking for increased charges.

As this PCN is currently sitting with POPLA in their appeals process I believe you have broken the British Parking Association code of practice whereby you cannot further process this PCN or increase charges whilst an appeal is in progress.

BPA C.O.P point 22.6
“22.6 When you receive a appeal about the issue of a parking charge, you must stop work on processing the charge immediately. You must not increase the charge until you have replied to the appeal.”

Furthermore as your letter also states you have retrieved my information from the DVLA, I believe you are also in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) as you have no cause to do this based on the facts above. And as a byelaw case you must prove that the keeper was driving the vehicle at the time before having a right to pursue them.
Please also note the following from the POPLA website "We would remind you that while an appeal is with POPLA, the parking operator is unable to pursue payment."

The facts are that I made an appeal to Indigo directly then a further appeal to POPLA, the independent adjudicator, which at this time is still in progress. However, whilst the case was under appeal, you have taken a deliberate step to acquire my data prematurely and unlawfully as well as passing it on to a 3rd Party (in this case ZZPS trading under ‘PCN Admin Centre’

There is no justification for you to pursue me. You have, therefore, obtained my personal information without reasonable cause. This is a clear breach of data protection principles 1 and 2 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA). Your unreasonable and unlawful demand for payment is causing me significant distress and anxiety.

I demand that you immediately cease and desist from processing my personal data, except to inform me that you have complied with this demand. Any further processing of my personal data, including demands for payment or passing my personal data to any third party, will be considered harassment and a flagrant disregard of the DPA.

The DPA requires you to respond to this notice within 21 days to confirm that you have or will comply with my demands, or to explain why you have not or will not comply.

In this instance I will be informing the BPA and DVLA that you have you breached their code of practice as well as informing the Information Commissioners office that I believe you have breached the DPA when handling my details including passing them onto ZZPS.This may result in legal action against you for compensation or damages, including Exemplary or Punitive damages.

Please note this letter has been sent via recorded delivery.
Yours faithfully

anothpark

Hey, I have until the end of tonight to leave my comments. I'm not 100% sure what you meant by

you should comment on the evidence (e.g. that they haven't shown any evidence that you are the liable person which under Railway Byelaws if the owner) and that there is no evidence of a breach of byelaws in any case.

They obviously have pics etc. of the car parked without a ticket but it wasn't the registered keeper at the time so they have no right to pursue?

anothpark

So this is what I was thinking of leaving as my comments:

Indigo haven't shown any evidence that I am liable as the keeper. Their signage makes no mention of sending a PCN to the registered address of the vehicle and there is no evidence of a breach of byelaws in any case.Finally they have failed to comply with POFA 2012 having not sent a Notice to Keeper within the allowed timeframe. I'd also like to point out that despite being under appeal with POPLA,Indigo have chosen to ignore the guidelines outlined by the BPA and POPLA's website and to contact me not only with demands for an increased payment, but also threatening court action and a private criminal prosecution.I believe this has been done via a 3rd party and they have obtained my details without cause to do so, due to this being under appeal, resulting in a breach of the Data Protection Act

Coupon-mad

OWNER. As I said in the part your quoted - and I meant 'owner' not keeper.

The Railway byelaws can only hold an owner liable for a breach set out in the byelaws.

You need to say there is not only no evidence of byelaws breach but their signage shows the terms are excessively wordy, illegible and in far too small print to see the parking charge which is hidden in small print. And in any case they have not shown who the owner might be, who is the only possible liable party under byelaws. And yes, no NTK arrived in the required timeframe if they were trying for 'keeper liability'.

And yes, add the bit you said about DPA breach to start the ball rolling with that part of the attack:

I'd also like to point out that despite being under appeal with POPLA,Indigo have chosen to ignore the guidelines outlined by the BPA and POPLA's website and to contact me not only with demands for an increased payment, but also threatening court action and a private criminal prosecution.I believe this has been done via a 3rd party and they have obtained my details without cause to do so, due to this being under appeal, resulting in a breach of the Data Protection Act

If you lose, it means nothing and Railway 'penalties' (real ones) would time out after 6 months anyway! And it would still be the case that they have obtained DVLA data when they should not have done so, during an appeal. You cold also complain to the DVLA about that, to get more evidence by email that this was a breach, ready for a possible claim against them and the TOC for compensation.

anothpark

In actual fact the sign that tells you how to pay by phone makes no mention of a fine to a keeper or what the charge would be. In fact in doesn't even mention what the cost of a days parking is.

changed to the following:

Indigo haven't shown any evidence that I am liable as the owner. Their signage is small and illegible and in far too small print to see the parking charge. It is hidden behind a taxi rank,is impossible to read unless on foot but sits in an area without safe pedestrian access. The pay by phone signage makes no mention of sending a PCN to the registered address of the vehicle and there is no evidence of a breach of byelaws in any case and they have not shown who the owner might be.Finally they have failed to comply with POFA 2012 having not sent a Notice to Keeper within the allowed timeframe. I'd also like to point out that despite being under appeal with POPLA,Indigo have chosen to ignore the guidelines outlined by the BPA and POPLA's website and to contact me not only with demands for an increased payment, but also threatening court action and a private criminal prosecution.I believe this has been done via a 3rd party and they have obtained my details without cause to do so, due to this being under appeal, resulting in a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Thanks so much for your time Coupon-Mad. I really appreciate the effort you go to to help people like myself, I can imagine it gets quite frustrating at times having to repeat yourself. I think everyone just wants to make sure they get their wording just right so as not to leave any room for argument

Coupon-mad

Yep and you have got that wording right. And you have grounds to sue for compensation, the only 'risk' being the small claim fee, no other issues (you can see why parking firms try small claims sometimes).

In this case, Indigo can't even do that because they've dressed this bribe up as a 'penalty' when it isn't one.

anothpark

So my appeal has been with POPLA now for a while still waiting on a verdict, but today I received another letter from ZZPS - this time actually headed as ZZPS. They say that the unpaid penalty has been passed to them to resolve and it's now £170 including late payment and debt recovery charges.

Ironically they then say 'We are here to help you resolve this penalty'

So a couple of points:
1. I guess if POPLA are taking so long it's sort of a good thing, due to the 6 months time frame to pursue this?

2. ZZPS have basically confirmed now that the details have been passed to them - DPA breach. They also have their nice little stamp saying 'BPA' approved member'. So now I think I might write to Indigo complaining and mentioning the DPA breach, informing them I will be contacting the BPA,DVLA and ICO seen as this is still under appeal. Following some of the previous examples on the forum - maybe mentioning previous cases where the defendant has been awarding money? Should I ask for this compensation and then mention court if they fail to send it?

I'm also thinking I should also contact ZZPS - they have an email address so I can also bcc another email in of mine to prove sending (perhaps even CC in the BPA?). Just to stop them sending more letters

I thought I could say something along the lines of:

Dear sir/madam,

Thank you for your recent, letter reference number xxxxxx with regards to PCN xxxxx

I find it interesting that my details have been passed to you and that you insist on pursuing me for extra money as this case is in actual fact with POPLA under the appeals process. As a member of the BPA I'm sure you're aware that neither you or Indigo should be pursuing and increasing charges whilst a case is under appeal. Furthermore as the case is under appeal and your letter mentions that my details have been passed to you to resolve, I can only assume you have gone against the law laid out in the data protection act - I have proof from the DVLA that Indigo accessed my details whilst under appeal when they had no cause to do so and you have confirmed these have now been passed to another company - yourselves in this instance

As such I would suggest that you delete all records you have relating to me, and that if your adamant you are owed debt recovery charges then you should pursue Indigo for failing to following the required procedures. I hope to only hear from you once more confirming you have deleted my details and have stopped pursuing the PCN

Kind regards

Umkomaas

Standard advice is to ignore debt collectors. Contacting them shows they have a 'hooked fish' and will be encouraged to hassle you more.

Complain to the BPA and ask them what are they going to do about this clear breach of the BPA CoP - pursuing a charge where the appeals process has not been completed.

Coupon-mad

anothpark wrote: »

It was a railway car park so I guess the bye-laws would apply?

As this was a byelaws car park, POPLA have stated they are upholding all these appeals (or Indigo are cancelling them) so you should email POPLA and point out this is a pseudo-byelaws railway 'penalty' appeal so by now you expected to have had your appeal upheld as stated by Mr Gallagher the Lead Adjudicator. All such cases were to be upheld by POPLA in favour of the consumer (as confirmed in January) so you are checking you have not missed the outcome email.

Tell them that despite knowing the case is at POPLA, Indigo are continuing to harass you with debt collector letters which is a breach of the BPA CoP during the POPLA process.