60k for two storey extension creating 4th bedroom

Weejen30

To create a double bedroom and add 1m to down stairs lounge as support.
Architect has specified zinc cladding which is coming in at 15k
Thinking this is not adding value to our house! Going from 3 bed to 4 doubles. Architect begs to differ...we're in central belt Scotland

System

if you don't want zinc cladding - why have they decided to go for that?
1m increase in space on ground floor but creating a whole bedroom upstairs? seems like there's a few things not adding up here...

Weejen30

Building over a flat roof to create bedroom but needs to extend slightly into garden to make it a double

prosaver

Architect has specified zinc cladding which is coming in at 15k ..well tell him to pay for it then.
anyway wont it be cheaper to get the loft done and you would have more bedrooms too..

sound expensive for a double bedroom are you going to have gold plated bed?
just jesting

Weejen30

Turns out architect is fairly new to what things actually cost to build - think nice design but not practical and blew our agreed budget. seems only option is amending and re-engineering everything out and resubmitting! We were totally taken in with his chat....do we stop altogether and not go ahead or go down the taking everything out route? What is the going rate for adding an extra bedroom?? Can we take him to the small claims court for not fulfilling the brief - our budget was clearly stated on the brief.

Weejen30

Can't go into the loft as the existing bedrooms are in the eaves of the house

System

did you have the project costed at any point before getting all the permissions?
do you have a building warrant in place for it?

to be honest, I am very surprised if the additional cost for zinc is 15k - I've done a few jobs with it and the uplift shouldn't be anywhere near that - if it's over an existing extension presumably you are using timber frame and a lightweight cladding - zinc is a good maintenance free solution.
Who has priced your job? have you tendered to a few contractors or just one? Is the zinc work being undertaken by a specialist contractor?

what was the total budget given at the outset and what was said about it, were you ever advised that you should a qs price the works? - I generally find that clients are unrealistic with budgets but also when you tender a small job you can get quite a variance if it's materials/trades the contractor is unfamiliar with.

Weejen30

No project was not costed just agreed budget and had it written down on brief. Now have all permissions to building control. Architect told us it was a "small" job and should come in at under 40k including vat. All 5 quotes have come in at 60k including vat so something wrong somewhere. All builders are not zinc specialist and would be subcontracting. Architect has been putting pressure on us to start so we've stepped away as not keen on his attitude. he just expects us to find the money! Think this build is for his portfolio! I've been told cedar cladding or Marley cedral would be a cheaper alternative for the cladding?

System

Weejen30 wrote: »

No project was not costed just agreed budget and had it written down on brief. Now have all permissions to building control. Architect told us it was a "small" job and should come in at under 40k including vat. All 5 quotes have come in at 60k including vat so something wrong somewhere. All builders are not zinc specialist and would be subcontracting. Architect has been putting pressure on us to start so we've stepped away as not keen on his attitude. he just expects us to find the money! Think this build is for his portfolio! I've been told cedar cladding or Marley cedral would be a cheaper alternative for the cladding?

It's always difficult to budget a small job tbh, architects are not cost experts and should never claim to be, just agreeing a budget doesn't really mean anything if costs haven't been analysed throughout design development, if you don't pay for a qs then you have hardly any cost certainty for a project until you tender the job - we have seen somewhere around 10-20% uplift in tender prices in the last year or so just on material prices.
Sounds like you need to do a cost savings exercise, however wiping 20k off it on a small job is likely not to happen - the basic costs of walls/floors/roofs/slappings won't change too much, and you won't save 15k going from zinc to cedar/cedral imo.

WIth a quantity surveyor (i.e. a cost expert) we would normally expect 10-12% variation on a budget cost once the work has been tendered, but you've obviously got a much larger variance here - a lot depends on the discussions since the outset, were you never made aware that the project might not come in on your budget, or that you are likely to have to go through some cost savings to bring it in on budget?
We regularly have clients who add lots into tender packages and then are surprised that it has come back higher than their initial budget which included a smaller portion of work.

When it comes down to it - you will need to either sacrifice floor area or specification, that's the reality of the process, unfortunately it seems like you haven't been made aware of the costing process or potential need for cost savings and everyone was just crossing their fingers hoping to get it in on budget (which rarely happens)

Weejen30

We have spent circa 4K to get to this stage I'm feeling like it's a case of walking away from it all. I'm not up for starting again with another design and architect either. I suppose the architect has his money now and a nice 3D representation on his website and is not concerned. Its maddening that he was so misleading...and we've lost out. We did ask him to amend the cladding and take out some of the windows (which would leave a dark box tbh) and he wanted £1000 to do it! He dismissed employing a QS as it was such a "small job" and not worth it. I now have a small child who was promised his own room who will have to be disappointed and all our savings gone - how can THAT architect get away with this??

System

Weejen30 wrote: »

We have spent circa 4K to get to this stage I'm feeling like it's a case of walking away from it all. I'm not up for starting again with another design and architect either. I suppose the architect has his money now and a nice 3D representation on his website and is not concerned. Its maddening that he was so misleading...and we've lost out. We did ask him to amend the cladding and take out some of the windows (which would leave a dark box tbh) and he wanted £1000 to do it! He dismissed employing a QS as it was such a "small job" and not worth it. I now have a small child who was promised his own room who will have to be disappointed and all our savings gone - how can THAT architect get away with this??

It really does sound like he hasn't communicated the process well at all, do you have a formal appointment with them? (SCA 2106 or similar)
A good QS should be cost neutral on a project (i.e should cover their own fee in savings) however sometimes it's not worth in on small job, but where a budget is tight it's always good practice to advise clients to use one.
I can understand it's frustrating because you were expecting it to be on budget and it's not.
Have you done a full tender analysis and found out where the costs lie? I have found that the level of prelims has increased a lot since the introduction of the new CDM regs
pm me a link to the webpage, I'm interested to see if there are any easy moves to save costs...