60k for two storey extension creating 4th bedroom

prosaver

You could report him to ric,s .. i would use wood cladding. .. anyways this might help
https://www.realhomesmagazine.co.uk/advice/10-ways-to-cut-the-cost-of-your-extension/

teneighty

Weejen30 wrote: »

Turns out architect is fairly new to what things actually cost to build - think nice design but not practical and blew our agreed budget. seems only option is amending and re-engineering everything out and resubmitting! We were totally taken in with his chat....do we stop altogether and not go ahead or go down the taking everything out route? What is the going rate for adding an extra bedroom?? Can we take him to the small claims court for not fulfilling the brief - our budget was clearly stated on the brief.[/QUOTE

Sack the useless "architect" and engage a decent architectural designer. Fee should be around £1500 not £4000 for some muppet who has delusions of appearing on Grand Designs and doesn't care about the client's budget. Did he have a hipster beard, bow tie and red shoes by any chance? always a giveaway for an architect with an overblown ego. As for demanding an extra £1000 to amend the drawings...daylight robbery.

A good experienced designer should be able to produce a design that fits a client's budget and should be able to advise the client on likely costs without the need to employ a QS.

prosaver

I got my drawing plans for 500 pound for a single story extension that was 8 years ago tho..

System

teneighty wrote: »

Weejen30 wrote: »

Turns out architect is fairly new to what things actually cost to build - think nice design but not practical and blew our agreed budget. seems only option is amending and re-engineering everything out and resubmitting! We were totally taken in with his chat....do we stop altogether and not go ahead or go down the taking everything out route? What is the going rate for adding an extra bedroom?? Can we take him to the small claims court for not fulfilling the brief - our budget was clearly stated on the brief.[/QUOTE

Sack the useless "architect" and engage a decent architectural designer. Fee should be around £1500 not £4000 for some muppet who has delusions of appearing on Grand Designs and doesn't care about the client's budget. Did he have a hipster beard, bow tie and red shoes by any chance? always a giveaway for an architect with an overblown ego. As for demanding an extra £1000 to amend the drawings...daylight robbery.

A good experienced designer should be able to produce a design that fits a client's budget and should be able to advise the client on likely costs without the need to employ a QS.

To be completely honest I would be very surprised if you could get anyone to design an extension, get planning approval, get a building warrant approval (requiring coordination with structural engineer),produce a tender document and then tender it to 5 contractors for 1500 quid!? Especially anyone that has any kind of overheads like membership of a professional body, pi insurance etc...
Yes a designer should be able to design to a budget but budgets and briefs very rarely match in my experience, and very few clients want to be told they can't afford what they want, I would guess 85% of our domestic projects go through a cost savings exercise after the brief has been properly coated at some point in the process. It's all very well telling people not to appoint professionals to perform their specific jobs but all that does is increase the likelihood of things going south for an inexperienced client.

teneighty

the_r_sole wrote: »

teneighty wrote: »

To be completely honest I would be very surprised if you could get anyone to design an extension, get planning approval, get a building warrant approval (requiring coordination with structural engineer),produce a tender document and then tender it to 5 contractors for 1500 quid!? Especially anyone that has any kind of overheads like membership of a professional body, pi insurance etc...
Yes a designer should be able to design to a budget but budgets and briefs very rarely match in my experience, and very few clients want to be told they can't afford what they want, I would guess 85% of our domestic projects go through a cost savings exercise after the brief has been properly coated at some point in the process. It's all very well telling people not to appoint professionals to perform their specific jobs but all that does is increase the likelihood of things going south for an inexperienced client.

I did not see where the OP said the architect produced tender documents and sent them out to 5 contractors? If that is the case make it £2000. That is for a professionally qualified designer with membership of a professional institution and full PI cover. But not an overpriced and in this case incompetent (probably bow tie wearing) architect.

It is a little first floor bedroom extension with a tiny ground floor element, they are not designing the new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point. If an architect cannot produce drawings for such a small job and get it to within at least 10% of the client's maximum budget they they should not be in practice. Surely that is the point of hiring a professional? I'm sure my old granny could design an impressive extension if money was no object. And then blame the client because they cannot afford this architectural masterpiece...priceless, typical architect.

It amazes me that homeowners get taken in by these extortionate fees charged by registered architects for small residential projects and to receive such a sub-standard service as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

System

teneighty wrote: »

the_r_sole wrote: »

I did not see where the OP said the architect produced tender documents and sent them out to 5 contractors? If that is the case make it £2000. That is for a professionally qualified designer with membership of a professional institution and full PI cover. But not an overpriced and in this case incompetent (probably bow tie wearing) architect.

It is a little first floor bedroom extension with a tiny ground floor element, they are not designing the new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point. If an architect cannot produce drawings for such a small job and get it to within at least 10% of the client's maximum budget they they should not be in practice. Surely that is the point of hiring a professional? I'm sure my old granny could design an impressive extension if money was no object. And then blame the client because they cannot afford this architectural masterpiece...priceless, typical architect.

It amazes me that homeowners get taken in by these extortionate fees charged by registered architects for small residential projects and to receive such a sub-standard service as well is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Obviously my experience is completely different to yours, having worked with hundreds of clients on small scale projects over the year, I couldn't make that sort of fee stack up for getting past tender stage in the Scottish process... especially with an engineer on board.
I know I'm not an expert in construction costs and where budgets and briefs don't match up you always have to have an awkward conversation, sometimes you end up designing what the client wants to tender and see what the market price is knowing you will have to do a cost savings exercise - a QS you would generally expect to be within 10% of current market rates, I would say it's a very rare thing for someone not dealing in tenders every day to keep up with trends in pricing. After all, that's why you employ specialists.

Be interested to know where your 2k figure comes from?
Give us a breakdown,
Initial client meeting
Produce fee quote/appointment document
Site visit
Measured survey
Design development with client meetings
Pre-app (maybe)
Planning application drawings
Consultant engineer
Building regulation drawings
Responding to building ref points schedules
Identify contractors, discuss with clients, maybe visit jobs they are doing
Produce a tender document/schedule of works most likely
Review tenders

Any expenses/printing costs?

teneighty

I stand by my fee estimate and think the £4000 charged is excessive but going off at a tangent wont help the OP. I also think it is outrageous that the architect has got his budget estimate wrong by £20k on a £40k job and then has the gall to demand an extra £1000 to amend the drawings to try and bring the build cost back down to the client's budget.

My advice stays as sack the architect and start again with a new designer, preferably one with more reasonable fees and a better grasp on cost control and building construction. It is unfortunate that the OP has to incur additional expense but the alternatives are to just give up and abandon the project or throw more good money after bad with this incompetent fool. I would certainly think the OP has grounds to complain and follow the complaints procedure with the original architect and if necessary ARB (not RICS as suggested elsewhere)

System

teneighty wrote: »

I stand by my fee estimate and think the £4000 charged is excessive but going off at a tangent wont help the OP. I also think it is outrageous that the architect has got his budget estimate wrong by £20k on a £40k job and then has the gall to demand an extra £1000 to amend the drawings to try and bring the build cost back down to the client's budget.

My advice stays as sack the architect and start again with a new designer, preferably one with more reasonable fees and a better grasp on cost control and building construction. It is unfortunate that the OP has to incur additional expense but the alternatives are to just give up and abandon the project or throw more good money after bad with this incompetent fool. I would certainly think the OP has grounds to complain and follow the complaints procedure with the original architect and if necessary ARB (not RICS as suggested elsewhere)

It's interesting that you make a sweeping statement and then chose not to back it up because "it's going off on a tangent" - I would say your fee estimate is low for getting to this stage in the scottish system, surely it would really help the op if you could detail what you see are reasonable costs for all the stages/items they have paid for?
Again, describing someone as incompetent without knowing the circumstances and the process so far is a bit off - they may well be, but the information at hand doesn't give enough to make that decision.
I do think that asking for more money to amend the design is poor form, but again we don't know what the appointment terms are and what the op has been informed about their budget/brief.
Starting from scratch will be the most expensive route for the op, especially having to pay an engineer again - which is generally one of the biggest chunks of money in obtaining a building warrant.
Getting a grasp on what has gone wrong, why it's gone wrong and the best way to get a contract sum negotiated with a contractor should be the cheapest and easiest way to proceed - if there are grounds for a complaint to the ARB/RIAS then they can pursue that, but given we haven't been told what the appointment says, what the process was and what they have been informed on these matters so far it seems a big step to take without establishing the nature of why the tender sums have come back significantly over - there are a myriad of reasons for tender returns being high and a myriad of ways to reduce a tender sum.

prosaver

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/costs/extension-costs.php
grand for the drawings

System

prosaver wrote: »

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/costs/extension-costs.php
grand for the drawings

where does it say it costs a grand for the drawings for a two storey extension taken through planning, building warrant and tender stage?!