Pound going through the floor.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

And you are a prize xenophobe, sorry I meant Leave voter, oh wait, they're the same thing.

Really am tired of this vile rhetoric you spout.

Definition of xenophobe
: one unduly fearful of what is foreign and especially of people of foreign origin

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobe

Which clearly I am not since my wife is foreign and we've many foreign friends.

So no, leave voters are not the same as xenophobes.

Find a new narrative.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

The people I speak to in real life who voted leave say it wasn't because of immigration but rather being governed by Brussels. While I find their reasoning flawed, it is clear that halting FOM wasn't top of the agenda for many leave voters. On this forum, you'd be hard pressed to find those sort, I admit, it does seem to attract people like you.

But we do have TrickyTree, who voted leave and says he is happy with maintaining the four freedoms. Although he never speaks out against the anti-immigration rhetoric, so even there I'm suspect that he is being duplicitous.

You seem to believe you speak for everyone.

I have no feelings regarding freedom of movement, keep it, lose it, it doesn't matter to me personally.

I would prefer to retain tariff free single market access, if that meant accepting FOM then so be it. I've been quite clear on this. It's looking like FOM is a red line therefore we may not get single market access in the way I would prefer, but we don't always get what we prefer. Instead of stamping my feet about it which won't change anything I'll have to accept that we'll be losing tariff free access into the single market. I just so happen to think that tariffs have already been negated by the fall in sterling.

I'm not anti-immigration, I'm also not anti-democracy, so if the majority of the leave vote want to curb immigration more than they want tariff free access to the single market, so be it.

What is wrong with my position? The fact I don't agree with you or is there something inherently flawed in my opinions?

stator

Plenty of people voted Leave on grounds other than immigration.

Graham_Devon

I'm hoping we can put the brexit prejudices from both sides aside a minute and look at the actual scenario facing us.

If Brexit is to blame, why is this happening now, 4-5 months after we voted? Nothing has changed, we are not implementing anything at the moment. So why the sudden drops, if, indeed, Brexit is to blame.

As I saw one person state on the news, continually blaming the issue simply means you miss the real issues at hand. The same commentator suggested the FTSE is the really worrying indicator out there at the moment.

There seems to be a real risk of some sort of car crash as people use an historical event to argue over whether they were right or wrong to vote the way they did.

Has everyone forgotten, for example, that interest rates were halved and a load more money pumped into the economy around 2 months after the referendum vote? We've still yet to see any convincing reason as to why this was.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm not anti-immigration, I'm also not anti-democracy, so if the majority of the leave vote want to curb immigration more than they want tariff free access to the single market, so be it.

So, only the leave voters have a voice now? What about what the majority of the country wants? And who even knows if that is what the majority of what the leave vote even want?

What is wrong with my position? The fact I don't agree with you or is there something inherently flawed in my opinions?

Because I've said many times that the in/out vote grouped people in a flawed manner and I'm illustrating this.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If Brexit is to blame, why is this happening now, 4-5 months after we voted? Nothing has changed, we are not implementing anything at the moment. So why the sudden drops, if, indeed, Brexit is to blame.

To suggest it's happening now 4-5 months after the referendum and therefore, by implication, isn't anything to do with Brexit is rather disingenuous.

Sterling collapsed on 23rd June directly because of the result of the referendum. It's worsened lately as any hopes Brexit may not happen recede and politicians step up their megaphone diplomacy/ negotiation.

I know some like the argument this is simply a balance of trade issue that's come home to roost (coincidentally on the 23rd June) but I don't think so. IMO people who bet their own money on future events are judging that Brexit is going to be negative for the UK economy and the demand for Sterling is going to fall.

The killer is going to be the uncertainty - we'll be OK in the end I'm sure but it's going to be a grind.

warehouse

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

To suggest it's happening now 4-5 months after the referendum and therefore, by implication, isn't anything to do with Brexit is rather disingenuous.

That's not what I suggested. It's your spin on what I stated.

I asked for REASONS as to why Brexit is to blame for the drops we have seen in the last month.

If there are solid reasons, and we can lay them on Brexit, then fair do's. But that doesn't seem to be the case. The BBC are all over it, sttaing "brexit, pound fall" at every opportunity, however, they give no reason other than "brexit".

If we'd implemented Article 50, or had negotations, or anything to do with Brexit, I'd understand. But literally nothing much has happened and won't until at least January.... so what's with the sudden instability if it's all Brexit's fault?

As I say, theres a huge risk that we all miss the huge elephant in the room.

The second point on this is that every other indicator that it was suggested Brexit would cause damage on has been absolutely fine....indeed, economists are somewhat surprised (again) that indicators have done better than they thought. Consumer confidence is up, house prices still going up, FTSE up, spending up. All those indicators were at risk....so if we are to blame brexit for the pound, surely all those other indicators would be suffering too?

The argument that the pound has suddenly, and violently dropped is because people "hopes" aren't realised is a bit far fetched, IMHO.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

So, only the leave voters have a voice now? What about what the majority of the country wants? And who even knows if that is what the majority of what the leave vote even want?



Because I've said many times that the in/out vote grouped people in a flawed manner and I'm illustrating this.

What on earth are you on about.

referendum

noun

a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

The question:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So a referendum in a democracy which asks the people their opinion on a question is flawed because you feel it groups people?

You appear to be in the same boat as Caroline Lucas who wants perpetual referenda.

The question was asked, the majority voted to leave. They didn't vote on how to leave, how much to leave, when to leave, or anything else. Just that we should leave.

If you respect the referendum result then you must by association respect that the only question that was asked was if we should leave or remain. Nothing else. So all these soft-brexit, hard-brexit, FOM or not, blah blah, are just opinions and are of no relevance to what actually happened.

Those details are at the moment for the government to work out. If the government decides to call another referendum on what Brexit should look like then these opinions will become relevant.

That's the difference between parliamentary democracy and outright democracy.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What on earth are you on about.

You pass yourself off as a smart guy, so I'm pretty sure you know what I'm on about but as usual you can't have a sensible discussion here without people being intentionally disingenuous.