Water meter - how can they instal it

Tumtitums

hello

I live in a flat which is in a house which was converted to two flats several years ago. When i first moved in several years ago thames water said they were unable to fit a water meter and the previous residents did not have one
Today i have come home to find a letter saying that Thames water have fitted a smart meter "in the footpath"

My questions are as follows
i) If for the past 50 years they were unable to fit a meter specifically for my flat then how come all of a sudden they have managed to resolve this problem.

ii) how do i know that they have fitted a meter onto the water supply that leads to my flat only. My understanding was that previously they were unable to fit the meter into the pipe that goes to my flat . i also thought that the pipe outside the property is not one that specifically goes to my flat , i was under the impression that it is one that that goes to the house ie both flats. How can i check this ?

I am suspicious about this issue as the flat downstairs has been empty for months and there have only been letters from thames water addressed to me and none to the flat below. I dont want to end up paying for water being supplied to my flat and the flat below

Thanks

Cardew

Perfectly reasonable questions.

I suggest you write(not phone) to Thames Water and state that it is your understanding there is only one main water supply to the two properties. and get them to check.

Many houses converted to flats didn't bother to tell the water company and only one flat got a bill. Are you sure both flats are being billed?

Tumtitums

Cardew wrote: »

Perfectly reasonable questions.

I suggest you write(not phone) to Thames Water and state that it is your understanding there is only one main water supply to the two properties. and get them to check.

Many houses converted to flats didn't bother to tell the water company and only one flat got a bill. Are you sure both flats are being billed?

Im currently on their estimated bill based soley on property size. I dont know if the other property gets a bill however im pretty sure the other property didnt get these letters saying that thames water were going to fit a water meter and they didnt get one saying the meter had been fitted (the other property is currently empty and for sale so all their mail is lying in the communal hallway)

Ive written to them just now , presumably i am within my rights to ask for a copy of their assessment that shows that they can now fit a meter outside that would measure the water supply to my flat only ? i would have thought that a change of mind like this would require someone to do some sort of documented assessment ?

Cardew

It seems you are on an 'assessed charge' which is standard procedure when someone has applied for a meter and it cannot be fitted, see: http://www.thameswater.co.uk/your-account/568.htm

I would check that your charges are appropriate for your flat only(i.e single person or No of bedrooms, and not for the whole house.

It would appear that the meter fitting it is simply a c0ck-up by Thames. I wouldn't mind betting that the other flat has never been charged for water since the house was converted.

footyguy

Tumtitums wrote: »

hello

I live in a flat which is in a house which was converted to two flats several years ago. When i first moved in several years ago thames water said they were unable to fit a water meter and the previous residents did not have one
Today i have come home to find a letter saying that Thames water have fitted a smart meter "in the footpath"

My questions are as follows
i) If for the past 50 years they were unable to fit a meter specifically for my flat then how come all of a sudden they have managed to resolve this problem.

ii) how do i know that they have fitted a meter onto the water supply that leads to my flat only. My understanding was that previously they were unable to fit the meter into the pipe that goes to my flat . i also thought that the pipe outside the property is not one that specifically goes to my flat , i was under the impression that it is one that that goes to the house ie both flats. How can i check this ?

I am suspicious about this issue as the flat downstairs has been empty for months and there have only been letters from thames water addressed to me and none to the flat below. I dont want to end up paying for water being supplied to my flat and the flat below

Thanks

In regards to Q1, I agree it seems a reasonable question, but please don't be tempted to exagerate the matter. As far as I know, no domestic properties were fitted with water meters in the UK 50 years ago. Stick to the facts please. You say you moved in several years ago, and that is when you first asked and were told it was not possible. If you can give the supplier that date, and even possibly a copy of the response at that time, so much the better
It maybe something to do with it being a smart meter they have now installed, and these were not available to be installed prior to around November 2013.

In regards to Q2, it should be quite easy (as long as you are on speaking terms with your neighbour)
(a) Look at your smart meter gizmo
(b) Check no water is being used by either flat at the time. Not only ensure all the taps are off, but check no cisterns are still being filled etc, and no washing machine/dishwasher is on.
You should see the meter does not record any usage
(c) Go and turn a tap on in your flat. You should see the meter record consumption. Then turn it off; the meter should stop recording usage.
(d) Ask your neighbour to turn a tap on. Hopefully you should see the meter is not recording any consumption. If it does record usage, and stops when the neighbour turns off the tap, then the meter is recording both flats usage.
(e) Repeat (c) & (d) above a couple of times to ensure the results and conclusions you draw are correct.

If it is proven that both flats are supplied by the same supply pipe, as you are led to believe, then you may want to check the legitimacy of both flats being billed for the same water supply, even before the meter was installed

footyguy

Tumtitums wrote: »

Im currently on their estimated bill based soley on property size. I dont know if the other property gets a bill however im pretty sure the other property didnt get these letters saying that thames water were going to fit a water meter and they didnt get one saying the meter had been fitted (the other property is currently empty and for sale so all their mail is lying in the communal hallway)

Ive written to them just now , presumably i am within my rights to ask for a copy of their assessment that shows that they can now fit a meter outside that would measure the water supply to my flat only ? i would have thought that a change of mind like this would require someone to do some sort of documented assessment ?

If you really do only have one supply pipe to the building, then that would probably be due to a bodged conversion by someone (and somthing that if either flat were ever sold should probably have been picked up by a proper survey)

So lets assumed you are living in a bodged conversion, and the water comnpany do not know, then it is likely the other falt is not being billed (you need to check this with the neighbour)
In such a situation, I would suggest the assessment that your bills were previously based on would be that of the complete building (probably as it was prior to conversion) rather than just your flat.

Nothing has really changed now, except the usage is metered rather than assessed. If you used to pay for all the water before, you probably will still need to. If you shared the water bill previously, then you should continue to share the water bill (although indications are you were paying it all)

By highlighting the fact the building is now 2 sepearte flats, the water company may ask that the bodged conversion is now corrected, so that each flat has it's own seperate water supply. Probably will be expensive.

Tumtitums

footyguy wrote: »

In regards to Q1, I agree it seems a reasonable question, but please don't be tempted to exagerate the matter. As far as I know, no domestic properties were fitted with water meters in the UK 50 years ago. Stick to the facts please. You say you moved in several years ago, and that is when you first asked and were told it was not possible. If you can give the supplier that date, and even possibly a copy of the response at that time, so much the better
It maybe something to do with it being a smart meter they have now installed, and these were not available to be installed prior to around November 2013.

In regards to Q2, it should be quite easy (as long as you are on speaking terms with your neighbour)
(a) Look at your smart meter gizmo
(b) Check no water is being used by either flat at the time. Not only ensure all the taps are off, but check no cisterns are still being filled etc, and no washing machine/dishwasher is on.
You should see the meter does not record any usage
(c) Go and turn a tap on in your flat. You should see the meter record consumption. Then turn it off; the meter should stop recording usage.
(d) Ask your neighbour to turn a tap on. Hopefully you should see the meter is not recording any consumption. If it does record usage, and stops when the neighbour turns off the tap, then the meter is recording both flats usage.
(e) Repeat (c) & (d) above a couple of times to ensure the results and conclusions you draw are correct.

If it is proven that both flats are supplied by the same supply pipe, as you are led to believe, then you may want to check the legitimacy of both flats being billed for the same water supply, even before the meter was installed

I dont understand why i should be doing this. If they put the water meter in then shouldnt they be sure they did it correctly ? i didnt ask them to do this and they didnt discuss it with me. If they had then i would have highlighted this issue. I moved in about 2.5 years ago and was told that it had never been possible to fit a meter to my flat
Ive never spoken to my neighbours as in all this time there seems to have been a different set of people living downstairs every 3 or 4 months. the property is currently empty. I do not know who owns the property and i get the feeling that it is owned by the freeholder vi a company though this is never what he says. He only sayss its a lady who has moved up north. i am being charged the water companies amount for a 2 bedroom flat at the moment not a 4 bed house. In my opinion the water company should now have proof that it is possible to measure the water consumption in my flat only . Im also not exactly sure where they have put this meter as it said on the footpath . I have looked this morning and cant find it at all . Im not sure if footpath means pavement or on the path leading to the front door. or what . Even if i did find it i cant do this experiment as there is noone in the flat below. I also quite frankly dont have the time to do this as i have other things going on in my life. If you are saying the meter should be clearly visible then i will go outside and look to see if i can see it again however i will google to see what exactly a smart meter looks like

giraffe69

I also quite frankly dont have the time to do this as i have other things going on in my life.

Then if you don't you won't resolve the possible payment for the whole flat or where the meter is etc. I think you may need to find time.

footyguy

Tumtitums wrote: »

I dont understand why i should be doing this. ..

You asked the questions. I gave you the answers.

Whether or not you now want to go ahead and actually find out is up to you, but if you didn't want to go to any effort to uncobver the answers to the questions you raised, why did you ask the questions ???

You shouldn't need to go outside to locate the smart meter - you should be able to see the usage on the portable dispay dizmo you would have received when they installed the "smart" meter

Or just live in the blissful ignorance of assuming they did the job right in the first place

Good luck!

Tumtitums

Today i recieved a letter saying thry str going to start work on the stret to fit the new smart meters on 16th septemper. Im confused as yesterday i got a booklet saying the meter was fitted on the 8th September
I have not been given any gizmo

Cardew

Tumtitums wrote: »

Today i recieved a letter saying thry str going to start work on the stret to fit the new smart meters on 16th septemper. Im confused as yesterday i got a booklet saying the meter was fitted on the 8th September
I have not been given any gizmo

My understanding is you don't get a 'gizmo' (like gas/electricity smart meters); simply the ability to monitor consumption on-line.

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/your-account/17386.htm