Indemnity Policy for Septic Tank?

abillybob94

Hi Everybody

So we're buying a beautiful barn but we've had a fair share of things go wrong when we got solicitors involved, mainly around the documentation of the property.

We're pretty much almost at the end of the enquries now and a lot of stuff has been sorted but the one thing that hasn't been able to be fixed is the right to use a septic tank. The septic tank is shared between all the other barns on the plot and our solicitor is saying he can't sign it off with the mortgage company unless we get an indemnity policy.

Now I kind of understand what an indemnity policy covers but is it still going to be ok to go ahead with the sale? I have asked this numerous times to my solicitor but never get a response. Myself and my other half are worried it may effect us if we come to sell the property in the future would this be the case?

Any advice would be most appreciated :beer:

G_M

Well you need to know in what circumstances the policy would pay out.

I assume the risk is that the owner of the tank suddenly decides to refuse you the use of it. In that case you'd have to either
* pay the tank owner for permission
* install your own tank
* connect to the public sewers
* do without (does the local pub have toilets you could use......?)

Hoploz

Presumably there would be something written up about who maintains the system, who is entitled to use it, and how any costs are shared. There should be info from the previous owner about what they have done or paid towards. Sometimes they are regularly emptied, eg once a year, I pay £180ish for this. Others I hear about are never emptied and seem to maintain themselves, eg reed bed.

There's not really a reason not to buy the place, but there are questions you will want the answers to.

I assume an indemnity would only be to insure you for costs arising if your right to use it was taken away by whoever owns it.

agrinnall

When you say the septic tank is shared do you mean that it is owned by someone other than you but that access to use it is shared, or that ownership is shared including by you? If the latter then I can't see what reason there would be for an indemnity policy or why it would ever pay out, as inability to use it would require your say so. I had a shared ownership septic tank at a previous property and there was never any thought to wasting money on an indemnity.

And following on from what Hoploz says, I lived there for 10 years, the tank was never emptied in that time and it didn't cost me a penny (and it didn't use a reed bed, although it did have to have a certificate from SEPA to discharge into the burn, which was granted before I bought).

Richard_Webster

I have asked this numerous times to my solicitor but never get a response.

Write a letter to your solicitor asking for a response which explains why the indemnity policy is needed. Ask for a reply and say that this previous refusal to explain is delaying things. Threaten to complain if you do not a satisfactory reply.

Sometimes it depends on how you ask the question of a solicitor. If it is on the phone (especially when you are not talking direct to the person actually doing your work) when you are also talking about a number of other things it is easy to forget an explanation is required on the particular point.

You are paying your solicitor to explain your legal position so an explanation of why a policy is needed is part of this.

Itr is is probably something like that the other solicitors have said that the septic tank has been shared for many years but there are legal documents giving any legal rights to do so.

Davesnave

In his last sentence, I think Richard meant to say: "It is is probably something like the other solicitors have said that the septic tank has been shared for many years, but there are no legal documents giving any legal rights to do so."

With these shared arrangements, the legal drafting can be faulty or non-existent.

Ours was just faulty, with (in legal terms!) the tank jumping from one person's property to another's. Sales had previously gone through without comment, but we insisted the two parties involved get it sorted before exchange, and they did.

Elsewhere on our property, we have someone discharging treated water from a septic tank without any formal agreement. They have simply acquired the easement over time. However, under current legislation, the discharge is illegal and the topography makes it impossible for them to comply with the Environment Agency rules, so when they, or the next owner, come to renew that drainage field, it will be very costly, involving a complete system change. They are blissfully unaware.......

It is well worth checking these things out. A solicitor can't do it all, as they are not drainage experts, nor will they usually visit the site.

Davesnave

agrinnall wrote: »

And following on from what Hoploz says, I lived there for 10 years, the tank was never emptied in that time and it didn't cost me a penny (and it didn't use a reed bed, although it did have to have a certificate from SEPA to discharge into the burn, which was granted before I bought).

If one has a large tank, it's possible, but not advisable, to go 10 years between 'emptying,' but shared tanks bring the distinct risk that others won't treat it correctly and reduce efficiency. It is never fully emptied, or you'd be back to square one with the helpful bugs.

Whatever SEPA allowed in the past is also unlikely to be the current position with discharge into a stream, unless of course it's a modern treatment plant.

Where I am, the 'authorities' tested the stream and required owners to upgrade many years ago. It isn't clear, because people are very confused over these matters, but maybe the 'septic tanks' were actually cess pits then. I just know that all the tanks are the same age, possibly renewed with a grant.

That won't happen now. A few years ago, some flats in a large converted house were discharging into a faulty cess pit on my friend's land. He complained to the Environment Agency and they immediately put a stop on the sale of two flats, and required the freeholders/management to immediately upgrade their system or face severe penalties.

agrinnall

Davesnave wrote: »

Whatever SEPA allowed in the past is also unlikely to be the current position with discharge into a stream, unless of course it's a modern treatment plant.

I had to check with SEPA before I sold in 2014 and they were happy for the certificate issued in 2004 to still be used. I don't believe they had done any retest of the discharge between those dates.

Richard_Webster

In his last sentence, I think Richard meant to say: "It is is probably something like the other solicitors have said that the septic tank has been shared for many years, but there are no legal documents giving any legal rights to do so."

That's right. Oh dear, I keep making these typos from too quick typing!

If big enough and not used much, septic tanks never need emptying. My wife as a teenager in the 1970s spent a summer digging a 14' deep septic tank for her mum and dad's then new bungalow. Her mum died in 1981 and dad lived there on his own until it was sold in 2008. The septic tank was never emptied in all that time.

abillybob94

Hi Guys, sorry been away and haven't been able to check. Basically they are brand new (Never lived in before) barns that we are buying from the builder. The builder isn't a big time builder just an individual. The builder owns the septic tank, we do have rights to go on the septic tanks land for maintenance but not a right to use it as a service. Apparently once the builder has sold the last property he's going to make the septic tank a company, but this is in the future and not yet sorted.

The septic tank is away from all the barns on another piece of land.

The septic tank is used by all the other barns so it's shared with all of them as far as I'm aware but after gaining the neighbours title deeds they also do not have the right to use it.

As a result our solicitor has said we need the right to use it before he can sign off the property to the lenders and us. He says an indemnity policy would enable him to do this.

You've all been most helpful thankyou, any other contributions will certainly help!

PS, looking at the searches it says that our water isn't from the mains water. Our solicitor has said he'll have to make further enquires to where we get our water from but I haven't heard anything back about this. Our solicitor also stated that it maybe because they are newly converted barns and our local water company haven't updated their records yet but the barn we're buying has been on the market for 2 years now so surely it should be all up to date by now?

Thanks again!!

martindow

It may also be that your solicitor is in a town and rarely if ever deals with rural houses and septic tanks. They could be over-reacting to to something they don't fully understand and are covering their backs.

Some years ago, I bought a house with a septic tank and a borehole for a water supply. Our solicitors starting raising all sorts of queries regarding this which threatened to scupper the sale. As I was buying without a mortgage, I was able to say I was happy to go ahead. A mortgage company may well have complicated things.