Need advice re elderly parent

elona

I don't want to sound unkind but is she really fit to be driving at eighty and can she afford the car?

I am only in my sixties and dds kept encouraging me to get back to driving but I decided not to as I do not really enjoy driving and my bus pass gets me where I want to go. Not having to pay for insurance, road tax , fuel , servicing etc means I can afford a taxi when I want or need one.

ouraggie

OH and I have discussed this one a few times. She seems a safe enough driver for now, from being in the car with her. She can't really afford to run it, but she won't get the bus or tube, even though this would be free. I don't think she has been on a bus for years. She could get to the shops but not to her friends houses as they live further away. She drives there once or twice a week and the cab fare would be too much. OH says she'd never leave the house if the car goes. He is probably right.
I think I might suggest to him that we say to her that if she gets rid of the car and uses a Freedom Pass for the bus he will then give her some money towards cabs.
Thank you so much to everyone who has replied so far. It has been so helpful. I do feel a bit at my wit's end with this one.

pphillips

troubleinparadise wrote: »

It sounds as though she has capacity, even if her financial decisions might seem unwise to others.

This comment seems to miss the point that you cannot apply for power of attorney for someone unless they still have mental capacity. If someone has already lost capacity then you have to go to court, which is very expensive.

warby68

I personally wouldn't pay her debts for her - I'd keep her on the tight budget and instead help her out with essentials such as food and perhaps a nice treat or two as long as she keeps to that budget.

That way, you keep a little more control and might be able to coax her along with 'rewards' and generally cheer her up and let her tell her friend her son looks after her.

I know its a bit like looking after a 'naughty child' but she seems more like that than a disciplined adult.

You can then see how it goes for a few months without having to adopt an 'all or nothing' sort of stance right now when you both seem in two minds whether to help or not.

troubleinparadise

pphillips wrote: »

This comment seems to miss the point that you cannot apply for power of attorney for someone unless they still have mental capacity. If someone has already lost capacity then you have to go to court, which is very expensive.

A person can't just decide to take over someone else's affairs by electing themselves as Power of Attorney because they feel the person's financial decisions are unwise - which is what the OP feels (not unfairly) and the poster I responded to suggested as the solution, and was the point of my post.

Yes, the donor has to have capacity, but also has to agree to donating the POA to a particular individual (or more), not because they are told to.

If a person has already lost capacity, then Deputyship has to be applied for to the Office of the Public Guardian, and as you say is a more costly, and administratively arduous, process than POA/LPA.

pphillips

Yes that's right -a power of attorney is different to deputyship in that it must be given by the person and cannot be taken, I apologise if that was not clear in my previous post.

A power of attorney is applied for through the public guardian and costs £110.

A deputyship order is applied for through the court of protection and costs £400, plus £500 if a hearing is needed. Then deputies have to pay a £100 assessment fee and then £320 per annum for supervision if the person's total assets are over £21,000. or £35 per annum if the total assets are below £21,000 .

Detroit

ouraggie wrote: »

Oops -forgot to say that OH is talking about clearing the Provident loan. I agree it's not going to help her long term. I have, however, suggested that he tell her he will give her £100 towards it if she plays ball till Jan.

Your husband should not pay off this non priority debt.

There is no way an octogenarian on means tested benefits should be paying £30 a week to a high interest doorstep lender, leaving her just £13 for food.

Your husband should feel no moral obligation to pay this. Firstly because he doesn't owe it, secondly because these lenders come low down the priority list when repaying debt, and thirdly because their business is high risk lending to people who in many cases they know will struggle to pay, and this is reflected in the interest charged.

Visit CAB with your MIL and they will arrange reduced payments on all her debt. In the circumstances they will likely arrange a token payment to Provident and any other NP creditors of £1 a month.

Please do not allow her to leave herself without living expenses to service debt, or feel you should subsidize from your own income.

Arguably she has acted irresponsibility, but is now very elderly and vulnerable.
There are debt solutions that are affordable that don't require other people to take responsibility.

Sicard

I would have thought that losing one's house, constantly getting into debt, spending needlessly and going to legal loan sharks would be deemed by anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together to be lacking 'capacity'.

Which is why I suggested exploring getting Power of Attorney.

Detroit

Laurie_Sicard-Askey wrote: »

I would have thought that losing one's house, constantly getting into debt, spending needlessly and going to legal loan sharks would be deemed by anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together to be lacking 'capacity'.

Which is why I suggested exploring getting Power of Attorney.

While it appears the OPs MIL is showing signs of confusion, I think if your post were true there would be so many UK adults lacking capacity, there would be a struggle to find enough deputies to go round.

Sadly many many people find themselves in the situation you describe, for a multitude of reasons.

Poor financial management alone can never be sufficient to evidence a lack of capacity.

warby68

Detroit wrote: »

Your husband should not pay off this non priority debt.

There is no way an octogenarian on means tested benefits should be paying £30 a week to a high interest doorstep lender, leaving her just £13 for food.

Your husband should feel no moral obligation to pay this. Firstly because he doesn't owe it, secondly because these lenders come low down the priority list when repaying debt, and thirdly because their business is high risk lending to people who in many cases they know will struggle to pay, and this is reflected in the interest charged.

Visit CAB with your MIL and they will arrange reduced payments on all her debt. In the circumstances they will likely arrange a token payment to Provident and any other NP creditors of £1 a month.

Please do not allow her to leave herself without living expenses to service debt, or feel you should subsidize from your own income.

Arguably she has acted irresponsibility, but is now very elderly and vulnerable.
There are debt solutions that are affordable that don't require other people to take responsibility.

I agree that there are more effective solutions if debt and too little income are the issues.

But I really don't get that impression here. More like a lady who has persistently wanted to spend more than she can afford but that would actually have enough to live on if she stopped doing that. Especially if she stopped ducking the 'nasty' bills to spend on the nice stuff until someone comes a knocking (in this case a fine going from £50 to £400)

Here it looks as if her budget works from January (only 4m away) and will improve going forward if she accepts help on getting better Sky, phone deals etc

I totally agree a Provident loan is awful but presumably there's an end to that too at some point?

I would worry that if you get her on some formal debt management plan making nominal payments she will see it as simply another way to be bailed out (or even worthwhile getting more debt if you never have to actually pay it off!) and carry on with the bad habits. She is elderly and possibly vulnerable but she has people to help if she'll let them.

No sympathy for the shark type creditors here but lots for the family trying to stop a never ending repeat pattern and resist being her eternal bail out.