ES Spinningfields Manchester County Court Papers

Keezy

h ttp://imgur.com/a/PI0rt

Hello to everybody reading this, firstly quick tip to new comers, save as you write (second time writing this). I have been reading through threads on this site for quite a while and have come across some great advice which has helped me in the past. I have had a few "Parking Charge Notice's" from Private Parking Companies in recent years and followed some advice, for example I appealed one, appeal was rejected and haven't heard anyone since.

Recently I have had a "Parking Charge Notice" in the Spinningfields Estate Manchester from ES Parking Enforcement LTD. I naturally researched threads and other sites but couldn't find a case similar to mine, forcing me to create a profile and seek some much needed advice and hopefully use it to help others in the future.

I noticed there has been a few incidents in the same area. Like the other cases, on arrival there is nothing to notify you that it is a private road (I only found out after reading a thread). At the time I stopped behind a few other parked cars just at the end of some yellow lines, with little/no signage that I have seen, so was parked perfectly legal in my mind. I think unrelated to this, there was a construction site quite far at the end of the road with a sign saying do not park in front of the site, which I presume is for that private area specifically as the rest of the road looked public.

About a week later I received a "PCN" from ES Parking Enforcement LTD for "Stopping/Parking in an area where stopping is prohibited. After researching the other threads and cases I ignored the letter as it seemed like a clear and genuine scam (and still does) as it was perfectly legal in my mind. As expected I received a second letter increasing the charge from £100 to £125 for some illogical reason. Again I ignored this but then received a letter from Gladstone solicitors and before I was able to seek advice I received county court papers. The papers include two sections to send back: Either accept and pay or dispute and build a defence.

The difference in my case is that I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle, it belongs to a relative and therefore all the letters are in their name. I am looking for advice as to how I should approach the court papers. Should I just state, on behalf of my relative who is the registered keeper, that "it wasn't me" and just wait for a reply, or would that look bad ? The court may think I should have informed the company before but I genuinely thought it was a scam and didn't want to contact them as from my relatives point of view they were never in the area. Or should I provide my details (the driver) in the defence also?

Other things to point out on the PCN is that there is an incident time but not duration and the photo is of my licence plate but showing no evidence of where I was parked or if I was even stationary. It could have been taken when I was parked somewhere legally for all I know.

Like I said the road is just off a main road and looks completely public with no clear signs, it is clearly a set up to scam people. I will go back on the weekend to take photos.

I would greatly appreciate any help or advice anyone could give, I have to post the court reply on Monday. Sorry if this is too long and please let me know if I have missed out something, it's my first time. I have tried to attach some photos of some letters, again I would be grateful for any help.

[IMG]h ttp://imgur.com/a/PI0rt[/IMG]

Redx

please edit the above post with a few carriage returns (new paragraphs) , then we can actually read it and respond (no idea why people dont write these things properly any more ?)

ie:- put some white space between the paragraphs and keep them fairly short , like you see in this reply

Coupon-mad

Would it not have been easier to read this one, or the others just like it?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5516829

or this one:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5472582

The difference in my case is that I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle, it belongs to a relative and therefore all the letters are in their name. I am looking for advice as to how I should approach the court papers. Should I just state, on behalf of my relative who is the registered keeper, that "it wasn't me" and just wait for a reply, or would that look bad ?

Not only would it look bad but they would lose.

Or should I provide my details (the driver) in the defence also?

No. It's not your defence, can't be done in your name and must be defended by the Defendant as named in the papers. It is too late to name the driver. Please just read recent defences on here and on pepipoo forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

...there are loads.

DO NOT respond, if any poster with less than 1000 posts on either forum, sends you a pm (private message) offering to 'help' with the defence off-forum. People with few posts could be anyone, and not acting in your best interests/could even be from the dark side! So, to get help you will need to keep updating this thread and we'll all chip in.

HTH

Redx

well known sc@m and been in the mcr evening news

see these threads

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5513773

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5516829

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5505541

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5465811

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5453462

plenty more of those if you search

Keezy

Thanks for the help so far, I have been and still am looking through the recommended threads. Just at the stage of going online to "acknowledge the service" and realised the surname is spelt wrong, long shot but is that worth referring to before acknowledging?!

Also just as advised in the threads you guys provided, I'm working on the defence almost identically to the other cases about poor signage and unclear that it's private, clearly a predatory tactic etc, but still reading through.

Thanks for telling me it's too late to name the driver but I noticed that I obviously shouldn't lie to the court, so should the registered keeper (who I'm doing this on behalf of, it was me that parked and they are unable to at this time anyway) at any point say that they were not driving? Or should they build the defence as if they were driving ? Just because if it comes to the hearing I imagine it would be difficult to convey?

Really grateful for the help and will keep you informed as I go along.

Redx

they are the person named on the court papers so they (not you) should be dealing with this, even if you are helping them

ie:- THEY will be the person in court, in front of a judge (if it goes that far) , not you

their defence will be that they were not driving , that the keeper is not liable , that the PPC failed POFA2012 signage issues , no locus standii , CoP issues etc

not sure if the surname is an issue so wait for replies to that question

Keezy

Ah, I understand, it's just they're unable to deal with it right now, so I'll be helping until (if) it goes to court. If it does go that far, I'm still searching whether or not I would be able to go and speak with the keeper as the named driver.

Thanks for the points, I just quickly read through the POFA2012 and it seems that around para 9, it states that the creditor PPC have a right to peruse the charge from the keeper (as I ignored the letters and didn't tell them the driver details), so isn't the POFA2012 in the PPC's favour ?

Also apologies for my ignorance but what is CoP ?

Yes, I'll wait to see if anyone replies tonight, if not I'll just go through with it.

Thanks again for the reply.

Redx

frankly , because you are not the person who has the papers I find your accounts and questions confusing to say the very least

I would advise you to get the person named on the paperwork to come here and be advised directly

CoP is Code Of Practice , the BPA has one , the IPC has a different one

the NEWBIES sticky thread has a list of acronyms in post #2

I doubt that ES Parking have followed POFA2012 and as an IPC member they work on the basis that the keeper and driver are one and the same

get all your ducks in a row before asking for more help because at the moment you are confusing everybody which wont help the person named on the papers

the letters went to the keeper , not you , so YOU did not ignore anything at all , the KEEPER did

Keezy

Sorry for any confusion caused to anybody. I do have all the papers, I'm not asking for two separate sets of advice, I'm just informing you fully (maybe poorly) of the situation, in order to carry out the correct procedure and best solution. I would prefer to just have the papers put in my name, but as advised it is too late to change that.

Basically, kindly advise me as if I were the person named on the papers. Therefore, right now I'm building the defence on the fact that I was not the driver, ES may not have been acting in accordance of POTA2012 and the clear inadequate signage etc.

(Thanks, yes I see your point, in the letter they sent, which I attached the link for, they word the letter to the driver, seemingly as you said treating the driver and keeper as the same and they only mention that "if you were not the registered keeper at the time let us know".)

I hope I have cleared some confusion

Redx

once the court claim has started you cannot deflect this from the keeper by naming the driver, whereas the keeper could have named the driver prior to the MCOL being issued

the keeper named on the papers MUST defend this, even if helped by a lay representative such as yourself

you keep mentioning I , as in I ignored the letters, but they werent in your name , so the keeper ignored the letters , the keeper received gladstones paperwork , the keeper has their details on the court papers etc

yes you can help, but the keeper has to do this as an adult, unless you have power of attorney or something similar ?

I know you want to help and feel responsible , but you are not named on this paperwork , so help yes , but forget this I business , please !!!

Coupon-mad

As long as you've done the AOS online in their name, that then gets 'them' a bit longer - 28 days from the court papers arriving, to build a defence with your help. This will be a fairly 'easy' task of copy/pasting, based on your reading of lots of other cases and defences exactly like it recently.

That will not be the end of it - there is more paperwork coming their way - and they WILL have to attend any hearing, although you can accompany them as a McKenzie friend (Google it). The claim will be allocated to the court nearest the Defendant's home.