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Hire company paid private PCN against their own terms and conditions (ARVAL again!)

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  • Fruitcake wrote: »
    Dudettes are also available on this thread. ;)

    My apologies for not knowing the feminine form for "dude" 😄

    I thank both ladies and gents for their assistance in this thread.
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  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,463 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    DJBenson wrote: »
    The one at the entrance is definitely over 0.3m2 (ANPR rig in the background)
    CEScammers1.png

    These also look bigger, certainly on the height
    CEScammers2.png

    Will measure them tomorrow - spending a bit of time wandering around will also confirm if it is exclusively ANPR or if they have "humans" too.

    My interpretation from your pdf is that the total area of all signs counts towards the 0.3m2 limit, not individual signs.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,463 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    DJBenson wrote: »
    My apologies for not knowing the feminine form for "dude" 😄

    I thank both ladies and gents for their assistance in this thread.

    I made it up. :D

    As for the signage, are there any outside the car park perimeter such as just the other side of a wall on public property, or overhanging public property?

    The 100 quid is not prominent or in larger font than the normal charges, so breaches the BPA CoP requirements for signage, plus the Beavis case requirements.

    What is this standard fee of 100 quid of which they speak? It also says this fee is per day which is a breach of the BPA CoP maximum charge. Complaints to BPA, DVLA, Trading Standards, and local press should be forthcoming.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Fruitcake wrote: »
    I made it up. :D

    As for the signage, are there any outside the car park perimeter such as just the other side of a wall on public property, or overhanging public property?

    Nope. Here's a wide shot of the only way onto and off the car park.

    IMG_6239.jpg

    What's your thinking?
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,463 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    DJBenson wrote: »
    Nope. Here's a wide shot of the only way onto and off the car park.

    IMG_6239.jpg

    What's your thinking?

    Take a pic as if the motorist was approaching on the public road form the left. The sign would be invisible.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • DJBenson
    DJBenson Posts: 448 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 September 2016 at 11:12AM
    Had to leave site (was starting to draw attention lol) so only have what's on my phone but did get this. Taken from the approach to the left.

    IMG_6227.jpg
  • I doubt the £100/day could be interpreted as a contractural fee. Hence it's a penalty, and the Beavis case says so (pay/hour car parks were explicitly excluded from the judgement at the Court of Appeal). Further, if you overstay, then CEL should only ask for £100 minus what you paid in order to make up the £100/day. That will be a problem for them.
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,840 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I doubt the £100/day could be interpreted as a contractural fee. Hence it's a penalty, and the Beavis case says so (pay/hour car parks were explicitly excluded from the judgement at the Court of Appeal). Further, if you overstay, then CEL should only ask for £100 minus what you paid in order to make up the £100/day. That will be a problem for them.
    CEL tried this in a case against Mrs McCafferty, (Case No 21), and it was ruled a penalty, (it was £150 in this example).
    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,463 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Castle wrote: »
    CEL tried this in a case against Mrs McCafferty, (Case No 21), and it was ruled a penalty, (it was £150 in this example).
    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

    So we have proof that a judge would have ruled for the defendant if this case came to court. I'm sure that similar PoPLA appeals could be found where the PoPLA appeal had been in favour of the motorist.

    We therefore have proof positive that if the motorist had not been prevented from appealing by ARVAL, they would have won their case. So, in addition to ARVAL never being liable for the charge so had no business paying it, the driver/keeper would not have been liable either.

    This information should be sent to the BVRLA with copies to ARVAL.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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