Hire company paid private PCN against their own terms and conditions (ARVAL again!)

Coupon-mad

Direct debit from your credit card or a bank account? Put it into dispute with your Bank.

DJBenson

Direct Debit - both monthly rental charges and this additional invoice are due to be taken around the 15th of September. I'll dispute the charge once it hits.

Interestingly, they've invoiced me for a 'Parking Fine Overstay' charge and a 'Parking Fine Admin Fee for Fine Ref xxxx'. They've also deduced from the PPC's invoice that this was an 'overstay' when in fact it was technically none payment (although in reality it was a mistake with the registration number at the machine).

Castle

DJBenson wrote: »

Interestingly, they've invoiced me for a 'Parking Fine Overstay' charge and a 'Parking Fine Admin Fee for Fine Ref xxxx'. They've also deduced from the PPC's invoice that this was an 'overstay' when in fact it was technically none payment (although in reality it was a mistake with the registration number at the machine).

Perhaps you could inform Arval that it was neither an overstay nor a non payment.

nigelbb

ARVAL as the Registered Keeper were on the hook for this parking charge. They could have appealed. They could have passed on the liability to the OP as the Hirer/Lessee by sending the correct documents to the PPC. They chose to do neither but paid the invoice without any reference to the OP & contrary to their own T&Cs. The OP is not liable for ARVAL's stupidity in paying an invoice that they were not obliged to pay.

DJBenson

Latest email and final response;

Dear <REMOVED>,

Payment of invoice not a fine or penalty

Arval has acted in accordance with the terms of the Agreement. Our right to discharge liabilities relating to the use of the vehicle was explained in a previous email. The clause doesn’t only apply to fines or penalties it applies to any responsibility, claims, liabilities, losses, damages or expenses, including legal fees.

Failure to follow BVRLA guidelines (“the Guidelines”)

The Guidelines are guidance only. Arval is not obligated to comply with the guidance and businesses who are members of the BVRLA and are completely free to operate to their own standards and practices.

Failure to follow legal obligations contained in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“the Act”).

There are no mandatory or obligatory actions which Arval has failed to adhere to under the Act.

In summary Schedule 4, Paragraph 13 (2) of the Act says that a creditor (in this case Civil Enforcement) may not bring an action against Arval if we provide certain documents including a statement signed on behalf of Arval, a copy of our agreement and a statement of liability signed by you. Aside from the Agreement itself we have no separate statement of liability signed by you so we cannot be certain of our ability to stop the creditor initiating legal action against Arval.

<REMOVED>'s email dated the 25th August offered you the ability to sign our standard transfer of liability statement so that we may treat any future matters with similar facts in the way you wish. This offer is still open to you.

The parking charge notes that “payment not made in accordance with the terms displayed on signage” which is a breach of Civil Enforcements terms and conditions.

It is our experience that most drivers benefit from the reduced cost of early settlement of these liabilities and generally our practice is beneficial. It is also our experience that incorrectly issued demands are uncommon and where a customer is able to show a charge has been incorrectly issued, we act accordingly.

The customer obliges to be responsible for the vehicle & duty of care for that vehicle on hire by Arval. Within accordance of the liability section of the customer contract, the customer will indemnify Arval for the payment of parking fines, charges and similar offences.

The customer and its drivers are accountable where they choose to drive or park and if a driver parks in a private car park/restricted area/council run car park or street, they should expect the car park operator to hold them to the charges they communicate will be charged.

If Civil Enforcement decide to retrospectively waive the charge, then this is a matter for their discretion. At the moment, we do not see that there is any dispute that the vehicle was authorised to park without payment. Please advise on the contrary to this statement.

The customer is advised that all invoices must be paid. Any unpaid invoices will be referred to our collections team to collect and this could lead to outstanding charges on your account.

This is our final response on this issue and no further correspondence will be entered into. If you would like to raise an issue against Arval, please do so by contacting the financial ombudsman.


Kind Regards

<REMOVED>

nigelbb

Here is a link to a similar case on Pepipoo where Arval back down & refunded http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=88633&st=0
& another on MSE https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5042923

I don't think that the Financial Ombudsman will be very impressed with them not only ignoring their own T&Cs but also the BVRLA Guidelines for 'best practice'

DJBenson

Oh this is getting interesting, from the other thread on MSE:

Our Legal department have confirmed that in line with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, where a hire company is contacted by a private land owner, or their agent, the hire company are legally obliged to disclose the fact that the vehicle is on hire and to whom. In light of this, we no longer require that you sign a form to give consent for your details to be passed to private parking companies.

:eek:

DJBenson

Just fired off a quick email to ARVAL UK's CEO (who is also conveniently on the board of the BVRLA) - let's see if that comes to anything.

Umkomaas

DJBenson wrote: »

Just fired off a quick email to ARVAL UK's CEO (who is also conveniently on the board of the BVRLA) - let's see if that comes to anything.

I'm sure he'd be extremely impressed by this statement in their reply.

The Guidelines are guidance only. Arval is not obligated to comply with the guidance and businesses who are members of the BVRLA and are completely free to operate to their own standards and practices

Beggar the fact that the boss sits on the Board - 'We'll pay no regard to the policies he's involved in developing and overseeing, complete waste of time him being there'.

DJBenson

Whilst there's a bit of fire in my belly, I've also set up cases with the BVRLA and FOS.

I eagerly await their response as well as the 15th of the month when they are due to take the direct debit and disregard more consumer rights :cool:

I guess if those two result in nothing then it would be a case of issuing a LBA and then some form of court proceedings - not sure how far I need to go before I reach somebody with a shred of common sense who can see this is a futile fight for ARVAL.