Supermarkets vie to cut fuel prices

bigjl

DragonQ wrote: »

This is why we need more focus on, and funding for, science education.

If you think about it properly instead of trying to be smart.

Just because you have no ability to assess how you car performs day to day doesn't mean others don't.

You could be the kind of driver that wouldn't even realise if they had one tyre with the pressure too low, some people can tell the difference.

And the fact the vehicle has reached the Soot loading limit sooner using supermarket diesel is evidence of a scientific nature.

Unless you think the car has decided to Regen more regularly due to thinking Supermarket diesel is inferior?

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can look at the evidence and see that if a Regen is needed more regularly them more Soot is being produced which can only mean the diesel used at the time is not producing more Soot.

I noticed the increased Regens on supermarket diesel back in 2012 on a 1 yr old Galaxy.

Again some people will not notice the slight changes when a vehicle is going through a Regen cycle.

Just because you can't tell doesn't mean others can't

oldagetraveller

Rubidium wrote: »

Have the brand snobs and supermarket fuel myth believers forgotten about when Shell launched a new 'super formula' fuel back in the eighties that actually caused serious damage to many engines!

I remember that. Was it called Optimax? There were proven cases of engine damage caused by the "go faster" stuff. I'm sure it was withdrawn then when everyone was expected to have forgotten, re-introduced?
http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2012/10/04/shell-optimax-the-wonder-fuels-that-dont-deliver/

Call it something suitable e.g. Optimax, Ultimate, Momentum, Nitro etc. and you'll draw the gullble in.

takman

bigjl wrote: »

If you think about it properly instead of trying to be smart.

Just because you have no ability to assess how you car performs day to day doesn't mean others don't.

You could be the kind of driver that wouldn't even realise if they had one tyre with the pressure too low, some people can tell the difference.

And the fact the vehicle has reached the Soot loading limit sooner using supermarket diesel is evidence of a scientific nature.

Unless you think the car has decided to Regen more regularly due to thinking Supermarket diesel is inferior?

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can look at the evidence and see that if a Regen is needed more regularly them more Soot is being produced which can only mean the diesel used at the time is not producing more Soot.

I noticed the increased Regens on supermarket diesel back in 2012 on a 1 yr old Galaxy.

Again some people will not notice the slight changes when a vehicle is going through a Regen cycle.

Just because you can't tell doesn't mean others can't

Saying that a car entered a DPF regen cycle more frequently due to supermarket fuel than branded fuel is also subjective!.

How many days exactly were there between regeneration cycles?
Was the car run exclusively on one fuel between the regeneration cycles.
How many days extra did the regeneration cycle take to start when using exclusively branded fuel compared to using exclusively supermarket fuel?
How many miles were driven between each regeneration cycle?
What types of roads and what driving styles took place between each cycle?
How long was the car driven each on average between each regeneration cycle?
Did different people drive the car (different driving styles and the main driver may have missed one cycle happening so thought it was longer)?

There are so many variables and so many questions to answer that simply saying that the car entered a regeneration cycle quicker on supermarket fuel proves nothing.

neilmcl

takman wrote: »

Saying that a car entered a DPF regen cycle more frequently due to supermarket fuel than branded fuel is also subjective!.

How many days exactly were there between regeneration cycles?
Was the car run exclusively on one fuel between the regeneration cycles.
How many days extra did the regeneration cycle take to start when using exclusively branded fuel compared to using exclusively supermarket fuel?
How many miles were driven between each regeneration cycle?
What types of roads and what driving styles took place between each cycle?
How long was the car driven each on average between each regeneration cycle?
Did different people drive the car (different driving styles and the main driver may have missed one cycle happening so thought it was longer)?

There are so many variables and so many questions to answer that simply saying that the car entered a regeneration cycle quicker on supermarket fuel proves nothing.

Then I'll make it simpler for you. On the same journeys that I do week in, week out I noticed a significant increase in the frequency of DPF regens when I was regularly filling up on Morrisons fuel than I've ever done filling up somewhere else since, and that includes using other supermarkets as well.

DragonQ

bigjl wrote: »

If you think about it properly instead of trying to be smart.

Just because you have no ability to assess how you car performs day to day doesn't mean others don't.

You could be the kind of driver that wouldn't even realise if they had one tyre with the pressure too low, some people can tell the difference.

And the fact the vehicle has reached the Soot loading limit sooner using supermarket diesel is evidence of a scientific nature.

Unless you think the car has decided to Regen more regularly due to thinking Supermarket diesel is inferior?

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can look at the evidence and see that if a Regen is needed more regularly them more Soot is being produced which can only mean the diesel used at the time is not producing more Soot.

I noticed the increased Regens on supermarket diesel back in 2012 on a 1 yr old Galaxy.

Again some people will not notice the slight changes when a vehicle is going through a Regen cycle.

Just because you can't tell doesn't mean others can't

The problem is this evidence you cite is extremely weak. Any study with only a handful of data points is utterly useless when coming to a conclusion. We need real statistics and, as I understand it, there is currently no scientific evidence that supermarket fuels are somehow worse for cars.

Yes, many people feel/think/notice/whatever their cars are better when using more expensive fuel. And many people think homeopathy works. Both facts are irrelevant to what happens in reality. It is also not surprising since the line of thinking that "more expensive equals better quality" is extremely common and well documented.

takman

neilmcl wrote: »

Then I'll make it simpler for you. On the same journeys that I do week in, week out I noticed a significant increase in the frequency of DPF regens when I was regularly filling up on Morrisons fuel than I've ever done filling up somewhere else since, and that includes using other supermarkets as well.

But that it just your perception that there was an increase and you haven't noted the actual number of days between each regeneration, plus there are lot of other variables to take into account.

But if you think that your statement proves that Morissons fuel is not as good then have you considered using Homeopathy medicine. It uses the same type of logic as yours to prove it works and you will never have to visit a doctor again!.

neilmcl

takman wrote: »

But that it just your perception that there was an increase and you haven't noted the actual number of days between each regeneration, plus there are lot of other variables to take into account.

But if you think that your statement proves that Morissons fuel is not as good then have you considered using Homeopathy medicine. It uses the same type of logic as yours to prove it works and you will never have to visit a doctor again!.

I think I can work out how frequently, or otherwise, my car is going through a regen cycle, it was not perception it was fact.

I'm not going to continue arguing the toss with you, I've given my opinion based on experience, I'm happy for you to disagree but there's no need to be so rude about it!

bigjl

takman wrote: »

Saying that a car entered a DPF regen cycle more frequently due to supermarket fuel than branded fuel is also subjective!.

How many days exactly were there between regeneration cycles?
Was the car run exclusively on one fuel between the regeneration cycles.
How many days extra did the regeneration cycle take to start when using exclusively branded fuel compared to using exclusively supermarket fuel?
How many miles were driven between each regeneration cycle?
What types of roads and what driving styles took place between each cycle?
How long was the car driven each on average between each regeneration cycle?
Did different people drive the car (different driving styles and the main driver may have missed one cycle happening so thought it was longer)?

There are so many variables and so many questions to answer that simply saying that the car entered a regeneration cycle quicker on supermarket fuel proves nothing.

What variables are there?

A vehicle should actively Regen when Soot reaches a set level.

In my case Regens went from once or at most twice weekly to every day, sometimes twice a day.

In my case there is no driving style to it, nose to tail congestion most of the time.

And only one driver in my case, me.

Weekly mileage in my case was between 1000/1200 usually, occasionally as high as 1500.

I am not taking about putting in £20 or £30 of diesel a week I am talking about £160/200 of diesel a week.

When you spend 10/12 hours a day I the same vehicle you can spot differences in vehicles behaviour, fuel range and regularity of DPF Regens.

Feel free to join Addison Lee for 6 months and try it out for yourself though.

I am not overly bothered if my experience affects you To be fair, you are entitled to your opinion.

Feel free to buy Supermarket diesel all you like, it's a free Country.

Or are you going to suggest that additives in fuel, specifically Diesel in this case, are irrelevant?

Head to Africa and have a look at the soot being pumped out of the local diesel vehicles.

Better yet head to Nigeria and fill your common rail diesel with the black market stuff. That has no additives so should suit you perfectly.

bigjl

takman wrote: »

But that it just your perception that there was an increase and you haven't noted the actual number of days between each regeneration, plus there are lot of other variables to take into account.

But if you think that your statement proves that Morissons fuel is not as good then have you considered using Homeopathy medicine. It uses the same type of logic as yours to prove it works and you will never have to visit a doctor again!.

Just because you are unable to tell the difference in how your vehicle performs and spot differences in Regen patterns (if you could even spot a Regen when it happen) doesn't mean other people can't.

You likely have other skills that other people don't.

bigjl

DragonQ wrote: »

The problem is this evidence you cite is extremely weak. Any study with only a handful of data points is utterly useless when coming to a conclusion. We need real statistics and, as I understand it, there is currently no scientific evidence that supermarket fuels are somehow worse for cars.

Yes, many people feel/think/notice/whatever their cars are better when using more expensive fuel. And many people think homeopathy works. Both facts are irrelevant to what happens in reality. It is also not surprising since the line of thinking that "more expensive equals better quality" is extremely common and well documented.

So you think daily Regens (sometimes twice daily) is the same as once or twice a week?

And at the moment BP in Dagenham is cheaper than the nearest two Supermarkets so no expensive is not always better.

You don't think 150/200 miles a day is enough to spot a pattern?

That say more about you than me.

Maybe you would be safer on a bike?