Dodgy sellers or an over-cautious buyer?

Cakeguts

I wouldn't buy it because I wouldn't know how well the work had been done. It could look very nice but be done extremely cheaply and you might find fittings wear out very quickly. The information about who did the work would help a lot.

You could get a house to look like this inside yourselves if you wanted to and at least that way you would know the quality of the work.

Forget how much it is selling for now. Compare the price to other houses in the area and forget what it looks like inside. Anything from the brick walls inwards is cosmetic and can be changed.

AnotherJoe

G_M wrote: »

That's unfair, a huge assumption and insulting.

It may well be a DIY job. That does not make it a 'bodge job'.

I've done lots of DIY in my house. I do it to a good standard, know my limitations, and pay professionals when I need to.

Every owner has different skills - these sellers may be capable of more (or perhaps less) quality DIY than I am.

But the fact of DIYing does not in itself say anything about the quality of the work.

As with any purchase, either evaluate the work yourself or pay a surveyor or other professional to do so.

No insult was implied or meant, you've added 1+1 and made 42. The "huge assumption" was on your part that because I said DIY bodge job that implied that all DIY was a bodge.

I was not equating DIY with bodge job. I could have said a bodge job, or a DIY job. I said a DIY bodge job. So no assertions were cast upon DIYers

My feeling is, a bodge job done by DIYers. Could have been a bodge job by a builder.

I said that because they've done a part rewire and can't say which bits they rewired plus if parts needed rewiring odds are the rest would need it soon so why not do the whole thing - no doubt because it was cheaper, because they are flipping it for profit.

Add to that, the stuff about "can't remember who they bought the kitchen from" is risible.. Why didn't they just say they bought it from eBay. Very suspicious.

junebug87

AnotherJoe - We've got an electrical certificate for the work that was completed, and details of what has been rewired. I thought it would be easy enough for them to tell me what hasn't been rewired.. Perhaps not.

Kilby_007 - Getting a test done is a good shout, thanks.

David1951 - In terms of the work completed, it's had new kitchen, new bathroom, windows, carpets upstairs, wooden laminate flooring downstairs, tiling in the kitchen. "Partial" rewiring, new boiler, new doors, removal of a non load bearing wall in the kitchen to create a kitchen diner, pavement dropped and a driveway adding.

We really like the property I just feel like we're meant to question every little thing when buying a house. We had a homebuyers survey and it didn't raise anything major. Having never done this before I just don't want to miss something really important, which may mean I'm questioning things that aren't deal-breakers.. But the sellers lack of knowledge is just worrying me. I can't tell if they're just a bit stupid or if they're dodgy. I don't want to lose out just because of paranoia!

Smodlet

Having lived through two re-wirings of houses, I have to agree that it seldom makes practical sense to do a partial re-wire. If all you care about is profit, it makes perfect sense. There are, of course, exceptions, but only a certified electrician can tell you for certain what is and is not necessary.

Do you know anyone who knows an electrician well, who could perhaps put in a word for you? If you can find someone who has just had major electrical work done to introduce you, that could stand you in good stead. If you just call one at random, they may charge an arm and a leg just to do an inspection, but if you are on friendly terms with one, you may be lucky with their charges just to look and test.

Maybe take a builder with you to see it again? I find this an excellent method as they tend to know about windows, kitchens, etc. A reputable one should be able to tell you to what standard most things have been done (not gas or electricity issues as these require specialist knowledge and accreditation)

HTH and good luck.

Money_saving_maniac

junebug87 wrote: »

AnotherJoe - We've got an electrical certificate for the work that was completed, and details of what has been rewired. I thought it would be easy enough for them to tell me what hasn't been rewired.. Perhaps not.

Everything electrical that is not on the certificate has not been rewired. So it's not hard to work out when you go around and look at the house.
I'm sure they will have done everything as cheaply as possible but they don't want to tell you that, I guess that's why they are not telling you it was an Ebay kitchen. Assume the laminate and carpets are the cheapest crap available.

However the survey is ok so that's a positive. Is there building regulation control sign off for the removal of the wall? Do they have the licence for dropping the kerb and planning permission if the drive is non permeable material? That stuff is far more important than where the kitchen came from, if you were buying from someone who lived there it could be an old kitchen design and the doors no longer available, after all.

Smodlet

Money_saving_maniac wrote: »

Everything electrical that is not on the certificate has not been rewired. So it's not hard to work out when you go around and look at the house.
I'm sure they will have done everything as cheaply as possible but they don't want to tell you that, I guess that's why they are not telling you it was an Ebay kitchen. Assume the laminate and carpets are the cheapest crap available.

However the survey is ok so that's a positive. Is there building regulation control sign off for the removal of the wall? Do they have the licence for dropping the kerb and planning permission if the drive is non permeable material? That stuff is far more important than where the kitchen came from, if you were buying from someone who lived there it could be an old kitchen design and the doors no longer available, after all.

Both excellent points, which have jogged my memory. If the dropped kerb was not signed off by the council and someone trips and injures themselves on it, you are liable. We found this out when we enquired into getting one. If you pay the council to do it, they are liable and you can breathe easily. Our council's quote was something like 50% higher than a private contractor so I wonder if the vendors have taken the cheaper route, do you think?

Also, the removed wall should have a proper steel holding the ceiling up, does it? If not, I would call it a day at that point, personally, meself.

junebug87

So, with the driveway/dropping the kerb. I have a document titled ‘Retrospective Domestic Vehicular Access Licence’ which states that the council, as the highway authority, grants permission to construct a domestic vehicular access. The driveway is gravel.

Is that enough information to ensure we’re not liable for any trips on the kerb? The document mentions that the driveway needed to be completed in accordance with the diagram and terms and conditions detailed on the application form, which I don’t have.. Should I ask for a copy of this?

Regarding the wall. I’ve had a document titled ‘East Midlands Building Consultancy Regulisation Certificate’ sent through to me. This details the work carried out (removal of non-load bearing wall, replacement windows, repositioning of kitchen door, removal of non-load bearing air cupboard to landing) and certifies that it has been inspected and the evidence suggests the requirements of the building regulations have been met.

Do I need anything further on this? Or is this enough to prove the work has been done properly. They haven’t given me details on what the building inspectors did or what they found during the process (i.e. if there were steel supports etc). Should I request more detail?

david1951

I would want a professional (electrician and heating engineer) to take a quick look at the wiring and boiler as these don't appear to have been signed off.

Furthermore I would probably get a builder/joiner/plumber/etc to have a look at the "wooden laminate flooring downstairs, tiling in the kitchen, new kitchen, new bathroom".

Again, can they see anything dodgy? Have any obvious shortcuts been made?

Alternatively, you can just press on and move in with the hope that it will all be OK. Doesn't sound like there is anything that is going to be massive (tens of thousands) to sort out. Worst case scenario a few thousand if the boiler turns out to be pony (it probably isn't).

Check that the certificate and licence are proper (ring them up/look on website).

Smodlet

I may be wrong about the necessity for a steel if the wall were truly not load-bearing. Do you know one way or the other? What did the surveyor say and did he instil confidence in you? How long was his report and how detailed? Were there many photographs?

Surveyors, as in every other profession, go all the way from sshh to shine. The one I did some admin for, back in the day, produced reports with more detail than EU legislation and left no stone unturned. They were often over 30 pages long and sometimes double that length. The only one shorter than 20 pages I ever typed for him was on a house that had absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some other surveyors charge the same kind of price for five or six pages... just to give you an idea. I have also looked at over one hundred crappy, old houses in the last few years; after a while, you get an idea of what to look for. You cannot beat taking a builder with you to view, imho.

As for these reports you have been given, even had I read them, I would not feel qualified to comment as to their adequacy. There may well be someone along in a while who can do so but no-one on here has seen your house, so advice has to be limited.

You could call the council and ask them if report reference whatever is full and final approval and absolves the home owner of any liability. If you are still set on buying this house, I do recommend taking a builder with you to see it. He might spot something the surveyor missed, who knows?

HTH and best of luck.

harz99

junebug87 wrote: »

So, with the driveway/dropping the kerb. I have a document titled ‘Retrospective Domestic Vehicular Access Licence’ which states that the council, as the highway authority, grants permission to construct a domestic vehicular access. The driveway is gravel.

Is that enough information to ensure we’re not liable for any trips on the kerb? The document mentions that the driveway needed to be completed in accordance with the diagram and terms and conditions detailed on the application form, which I don’t have.. Should I ask for a copy of this?

Regarding the wall. I’ve had a document titled ‘East Midlands Building Consultancy Regulisation Certificate’ sent through to me. This details the work carried out (removal of non-load bearing wall, replacement windows, repositioning of kitchen door, removal of non-load bearing air cupboard to landing) and certifies that it has been inspected and the evidence suggests the requirements of the building regulations have been met.

Do I need anything further on this? Or is this enough to prove the work has been done properly. They haven’t given me details on what the building inspectors did or what they found during the process (i.e. if there were steel supports etc). Should I request more detail?

More alarm bells I'm afraid, "retrospective" indicates the work was done prior to asking for permission, so not by the council therefore you are likely to be liable.


"Consultancy" indicates to me an outside company not the local council building control, and "suggests" indicates they don't know for sure because the work has not been inspected as it progressed, and indeed council inspectors may never have seen any of it.


One other thing is the laminate on the downstairs floors - what is that concealing? You or a surveyor cant really lift it to see can you.