Dodgy sellers or an over-cautious buyer?

junebug87

I'm buying a property that was bought as a 'project' and renovated by the sellers. We're now 15 weeks into the process and it's dragging. I've asked for some paperwork and details of the work that was done several times, but the sellers (or their solicitors) seem to be unable to provide me with what I'm asking for.

They had new windows put in (originally had no FENSA documentation but have since had the local authority go round and approve the work - which I have the documentation for) As this documentation doesn't cover me for any 'dodgy' work, I've asked if they can tell me what company they used to install the windows. They are avoiding answering this question (despite me asking my solicitors to query it about 4 times now).

The house has had a partial rewire - I've asked why it was a 'partial' rewire, what wasn't covered and when the elements not covered were last rewired. They say they had the bits rewired that needed rewiring, and don't know when the property was last fully rewired.

I've asked what company provided the new kitchen (just in case we want to get integrated appliances) and they say they have no documentation for it as they paid in cash and can't remember the company.

I don't know whether I'm being too cautious, or whether this sort of information should be readily available to the seller, and myself? Are there risks if I go ahead without having these queries addressed? I'm a FTB so just trying to cover myself as best as possible but i'm wondering if I should just accept the answers I'm being given or continue badgering them for information.

Any advice/thoughts welcome.

AnotherJoe

Sounds to me as if you are looking at a DIY bodge job.

Doozergirl

It doesn't instill confidence in me.

I don't think some people really deserve to make a profit on property. If they've done it all properly, they should provide information.

Some of what you say could be a bit fussy for a regular house, but I think it's fair to ask when they've purposely bought it for profit.

To be fair to them, there is no need to provide a window guarantee - FENSA does not provide that. And someone could only guess at the date of a previous rewire if they've only just bought the house!

But you have to know where a kitchen came from - even if it was ebay! And if you're declaring your business of flipping properties to HMRC, receipts are essential!

Amateurs.

G_M

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Sounds to me as if you are looking at a DIY bodge job.

That's unfair, a huge assumption and insulting.

It may well be a DIY job. That does not make it a 'bodge job'.

I've done lots of DIY in my house. I do it to a good standard, know my limitations, and pay professionals when I need to.

Every owner has different skills - these sellers may be capable of more (or perhaps less) quality DIY than I am.

But the fact of DIYing does not in itself say anything about the quality of the work.

As with any purchase, either evaluate the work yourself or pay a surveyor or other professional to do so.

ReadingTim

What do you hope to achieve with a FENSA certificate? How would this make the world a better place? The council has confirmed they won't make you replace the windows due to breach of planning permission/building controls/regulations whatever, so the only other thing is the 10 year guarantee on the workmanship, which may well be coming to an end anyway, depending on the age of the windows. So that's a bit of a red herring.

As for the rewiring, again that's a potential red herring unless any of the wiring is actually dangerous, which you'd hope it won't be if there are people living there. And even if it was a full re-wire, unless it was completed yesterday, there's a risk that it 'won't meet modern standards' as standards can change relatively frequently. It doesn't mean it's dangerous.

Finally, with regard to the kitchen, most appliances are standard sizes, as (to a certain extent) are the holes into which they fit. Usually the appliance manufacturer provides the fittings to the units, not the other way around. Who actually made the doors or whatever is largely irrelevant. Anyway, the problem can be largely sorted with a tape measure and the internet.

Therefore, the scores on the doors say "over-cautious seller". Sorry if that's not what you wanted to read....

Doozergirl

ReadingTim, you forget that new doors are needed to go on the integrated appliances! That's really quite relveant to who provided them in the first place.

Whilst I agree with everything you say, these people bought to 'renovate' and that swings it to the side for me of at least wanting a very good survey.

junebug87

Thanks all. Some interesting comments.

ReadingTim - I actually do want to hear that I'm being too cautious. I don't want the last 15 weeks and £x thousand on surveys and fees to have been a waste if I can help it. My concern stems from the fact that it was bought as a project. The sellers have never lived there. All the work that was done was completed within the last year. And yet there seems to be very little in the way of paperwork.

Perhaps it was their first property renovation, maybe they're new to it and just didn't realise they needed to keep all the documentation... I just felt I should consider the potential option of the sellers doing everything on the cheap knowing that they don't need to live there themselves. They bought the house for £160K and are selling it for £235K, so it's a big increase (or at least it seems like a big jump to me, I have no experience in property development or how much it costs to do this sort of work!)

harz99

Junebug87 you may be a bit over-cautious, but its your money and if you are not happy with the property now, you likely never will be, so I would say walk away and find another place that ticks your boxes, unless as Doozergirl says a full professional survey would be enough (assuming it was satisfactory), to put your mind at rest.

ReadingTim

Doozergirl wrote: »

ReadingTim, you forget that new doors are needed to go on the integrated appliances! That's really quite relveant to who provided them in the first place.

Whilst I agree with everything you say, these people bought to 'renovate' and that swings it to the side for me of at least wanting a very good survey.

Good point - I focused on the appliance, rather than its integration! However, one must also consider the depth of the aperture as there's no point fitting a door which isn't flush with the other units....

At the end of the day though, the buyer / OP has to come to a decision as to what to do if the seller can't or won't provide this information, and that's only a decision they can make, depending on their risk appetite. Fretting about the absence of certain bits of paper isn't really the issue.

kilby_007

You should ask for an electrical cert for the rewiring work that has been carried out, and if there isn't a test certificate that covers the whole consumer unit (if there's just one) then either ask for one or pay for one yourself before you move. If the rest of the wiring does need doing then it can be an expensive job. A test will check the insulation resistance of the old wiring and give you piece of mind.

The other stuff isn't life threatening. As long as nothing looks badly installed then let it go. I renovated my previous house to a good standard (new kitchen, bathroom/ensuite, flooring, etc) and I'd have been cheesed off if our buyers had started asking for guarantees etc. Just arrange another viewing and go over it with a fine tooth comb if you think there's likely to be problems.

david1951

junebug87 wrote: »

They bought the house for £160K and are selling it for £235K

An increase of £75K (or 47%) suggests this was pretty big renovation. I hope there was more than just a new kitchen, partial electrics and windows?