land boundaries issue

loveka

Your last sentence- that's what I thought too. Yes, if you are in the right you win the case. But the judge doesn't necessarily tell the other side to pay your costs, or my say your neighbour has to pay a proportion. It seems so dreadfully unfair. I felt the same as you. He was trying to steal land I had evidence was mine, surely I wouldn't have to pay my own costs to defend myself? My solicitor made it very clear that there was a possibility I would have to pay my own costs. But I would have kept the land had I won the case.

Don't record the neighbour- it's inadmissible unless he gives permission.

loveka

Also, even if you get costs, it probably won't include surveyors costs, including paying a surveyor to be an expert witness.

moneyistooshorttomention

loveka wrote: »

Your last sentence- that's what I thought too. Yes, if you are in the right you win the case. But the judge doesn't necessarily tell the other side to pay your costs, or my say your neighbour has to pay a proportion. It seems so dreadfully unfair. I felt the same as you. He was trying to steal land I had evidence was mine, surely I wouldn't have to pay my own costs to defend myself? My solicitor made it very clear that there was a possibility I would have to pay my own costs. But I would have kept the land had I won the case.

Don't record the neighbour- it's inadmissible unless he gives permission.

Personally - I would record the neighbour - in order to find someone to translate what he is saying BUT BUT BUT I wouldnt let on to anyone that I had recorded him and I would be very careful who I chose to translate it (ie someone I could trust not to get the message back to him that I'd done so!!) - as it wouldnt actually be legal for you to record him without his permission.

I know exactly how frustrating it is to have neighbours that speak a different language to you and can revert in the blink of an eye to a language they know very well you don't speak whenever they wish to:cool: (well I might just speak a few more words than I'm letting on to.....as officially speaking I dont speak a word).

pilavas

It is something me and my wife are prepared to do. I feel he will buck down and cower into his little corner once he realises he will lose.

I think it's an ego thing now who has more money than the other guy.

jsinc

I found this site (and its forum) helpful for reading & questions when had boundary issues: http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk

pilavas

jsinc wrote: »

I found this site (and its forum) helpful for reading & questions when had boundary issues: http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk

I have registered waiting for admin to grant me access.

Pricivius

Just to add a couple of points from my experience:

- The Court looked at the following things in the following order to decide on the Boundary:

1. The Land Registry Entries and any previous deeds or transfer documents which refer to boundaries, boundary features and/or measurements. Usually, these are not accurate enough to deal with the dispute, but sometimes they can describe a feature that solves the problem. Check and see what docs you hold, what your mortgage provider may hold and what the LR has, just in case.

2. Boundary features. Are there any trees or hedges? What features have marked the boundary over the years and whose were they? Part of our boundary was marked by a wall that was over 100 years old and surrounded our land - part of it was removed on the disputed boundary to build our garage 25 years earlier. It clearly delineated the boundary and was in our ownership but our neighbour was having none of it.

3. General layout in the area. This did not help us, but where an estate has been built by one building company, you may be able to get a feel for how the land should be divided by looking at everyone else's arrangement.

4. Suveryor's report. Can a surveyor, who has seen the property and looked at all the papers, reach a conclusion? A judge may find this persuasive, but only if the other side doesn't find a surveyor who contradicts! Our surveyor could not conclude decisively that it was our wall, and the neighbour's surveyor was equally non-committal, so they were actually useless in our case.

5. Historical reminiscences. Previous owners or other neighbours can be very helpful. We were still friends with the man who had owned the neighbour's house for 25 years and he agreed to provide a statement and give evidence. He knew exactly where the boundary was and who owned the wall and gave evidence to this effect.

As others have said, try everything before issuing in court. Offer mediation, arbitration, land registry decision (can't remember what this is called) and document that you have done so and that your neighbour has refused. See if a casual mediator could help - is there a local church or community group or pillar of society who may be prepared to speak to you both, separately if necessary, to help smooth things over? We tried this - it didn't work but it was worth a try!

Check that the argument is about what the argument is about - does he really want this strip of land, or is there something else? Or is there another way to achieve what he's trying to achieve without taking your land? In our case, the argument had nothing to do with the land, but was payback for something the neighbour thought my mum had done which she hadn't in relation to planning permission entirely separate to the disputed boundary. It may be you can find another solution for/with him?

As for costs, we lost out on some of the cost because we instructed a barrister who turned out to be useless and did not have a grasp of the issues or any interest in putting forward our case. So we had to instruct another barrister. The court were not prepared to award costs for our original rubbish barrister, which was fair enough, really.

jsinc

pilavas wrote: »

I have registered waiting for admin to grant me access.

From memory it didn't take too long.

You can get 30 mins free advice on boundary disputes from a rics surveyor:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/problems-where-you-live/neighbour-disputes/
http://www.which.co.uk/documents/pdf/boundary-disputes-153984.pdf

A relative did this. They were given the name of a company by rics, then sent an email explaining the situation. The basic response advice supporting their position (which I think amounted to an email & a phone call) was included in an outline letter to the neighbour, and that was the end of it practically and legally.

May not be so simple in your situation, given he's already acted. The worst aspect of these disputes is the animosity it creates and perpetuates, beyond legalities

Another potential starting point, although I guess you'd need to weigh up the evidence available to the land registry in assessment vs any not available to them:
http://www.land-registry-documents.co.uk/information/land-boundary-disputes/

DRP

Pricivius wrote: »

Check that the argument is about what the argument is about - does he really want this strip of land, or is there something else? Or is there another way to achieve what he's trying to achieve without taking your land?

This is really important imo^

What does your neighbour want to achieve?

Is there a compromise you can offer so that he can back down while saving face - and achieving at least a portion of what he wants?

pilavas

Pricivius wrote: »

Just to add a couple of points from my experience:

- The Court looked at the following things in the following order to decide on the Boundary:

1. The Land Registry Entries and any previous deeds or transfer documents which refer to boundaries, boundary features and/or measurements. Usually, these are not accurate enough to deal with the dispute, but sometimes they can describe a feature that solves the problem. Check and see what docs you hold, what your mortgage provider may hold and what the LR has, just in case.

2. Boundary features. Are there any trees or hedges? What features have marked the boundary over the years and whose were they? Part of our boundary was marked by a wall that was over 100 years old and surrounded our land - part of it was removed on the disputed boundary to build our garage 25 years earlier. It clearly delineated the boundary and was in our ownership but our neighbour was having none of it.

3. General layout in the area. This did not help us, but where an estate has been built by one building company, you may be able to get a feel for how the land should be divided by looking at everyone else's arrangement.

4. Suveryor's report. Can a surveyor, who has seen the property and looked at all the papers, reach a conclusion? A judge may find this persuasive, but only if the other side doesn't find a surveyor who contradicts! Our surveyor could not conclude decisively that it was our wall, and the neighbour's surveyor was equally non-committal, so they were actually useless in our case.

5. Historical reminiscences. Previous owners or other neighbours can be very helpful. We were still friends with the man who had owned the neighbour's house for 25 years and he agreed to provide a statement and give evidence. He knew exactly where the boundary was and who owned the wall and gave evidence to this effect.

As others have said, try everything before issuing in court. Offer mediation, arbitration, land registry decision (can't remember what this is called) and document that you have done so and that your neighbour has refused. See if a casual mediator could help - is there a local church or community group or pillar of society who may be prepared to speak to you both, separately if necessary, to help smooth things over? We tried this - it didn't work but it was worth a try!

Check that the argument is about what the argument is about - does he really want this strip of land, or is there something else? Or is there another way to achieve what he's trying to achieve without taking your land? In our case, the argument had nothing to do with the land, but was payback for something the neighbour thought my mum had done which she hadn't in relation to planning permission entirely separate to the disputed boundary. It may be you can find another solution for/with him?

As for costs, we lost out on some of the cost because we instructed a barrister who turned out to be useless and did not have a grasp of the issues or any interest in putting forward our case. So we had to instruct another barrister. The court were not prepared to award costs for our original rubbish barrister, which was fair enough, really.

From my case:

1, Land registry did not have much information regarding the boundary, previous owner mentions there was a big shrub which he requested from the council to cut back and to build a garage this was back in the 1960s/ 70s.

2, Luckily he has only removed part of my boundary about 7 metres. and I have a concrete wall behind the garage which outlines the boundary and a fence in the front. So should not be too dificult to confirm where my boundary starts and finishes.

3, The layout is quite strange as the whole plot is not a perfect sqaure which is why all the boundaries are not in a straight line.

4,Will be getting a survey done very soon.

5, The brick wall has been there since the 1980s definitely longer than 12 years making it adverse possession.

I don't want to go to court it will be my last resort next step is survey, and will get a mediator to talk too him. I mean he thinks I should be taking him to court where as he broke my fence.

If he agrees or not I will go ahead and rebuild my wall and put an end to all this.

Just spoke with the police who now confirm it is criminal damage what he has done and will be coming down on Monday 3pm to take another statement and possibly arrest him hopefully.