land boundaries issue

Seanymph

In a recent land registry tribunal case the qc representing our side said 'usually when a case gets this far one of the sides is nuts, I don't think in the case it's you'. It wasn't, and we won, but it costs money, time, and heartache. Unfortunately if you are dealing with a nutter/bully your being right doesn't matter to them.

Good luck, in my experience you have to completely commit to the fight. If you are right and they are wrong you win in the end.

pilavas

Seanymph wrote: »

In a recent land registry tribunal case the qc representing our side said 'usually when a case gets this far one of the sides is nuts, I don't think in the case it's you'. It wasn't, and we won, but it costs money, time, and heartache. Unfortunately if you are dealing with a nutter/bully your being right doesn't matter to them.

Good luck, in my experience you have to completely commit to the fight. If you are right and they are wrong you win in the end.

Thank you, your words are very encouraging. The only evidence he has is his title plan map which shows a straight line however I showed him the red writing where it clearly shows that this plan should not be taken as accurate and show just general boundaries and guess what he refused to acknowledge this.

DRP

pilavas wrote: »

Thank you, your words are very encouraging. The only evidence he has is his title plan map which shows a straight line however I showed him the red writing where it clearly shows that this plan should not be taken as accurate and show just general boundaries and guess what he refused to acknowledge this.

Sorry i haven't been through the whole thread in detail.

Isn't the general proviso for LR plans that the situation on the ground , including structures etc must be taken into account? ie as you say a straight red line on a plan has a lot of leeway on the ground.

Do you have photos you can put up of the area?

moneyistooshorttomention

Agreed. I think we do need photos to be clearer on the situation.

pilavas

The previous owner sent me a picture taken back in 1980 with him standing by his car near the boundary fence, you can clearly see that the fence boundary has not been changed. Also on the title plan it states:
"This official copy is issued on 22 July 2016 shows the state of this title plan on 22 July 2016 at 12:23:27. It is
admissible in evidence to the same extent as the original (s.67 Land Registration Act 2002). This title plan
shows the general position, not the exact line, of the boundaries. It may be subject to distortions in scale.
Measurements scaled from this plan may not match measurements between the same points on the ground.
This title is dealt with by the Land Registry, Wales Office ."
I tried to reason with him but he was just being very stubborn and refusing to accept that he is wrong, His last words were I have a lot of money lets go to court, his arrogance is what makes him stubborn.

I will try and load some pictures one I know how lol.

The plan shows a straight line between me and him but on the ground the fence on our side is straight but the neighbour fence opposite me is slightly to the left of our fence and there is a valid reason why it is set out like that I tried to tell him the reason why this is but again he just refused to accept it.
We live in a cul de sac area of west London (Hayes), Not sure what he plans on achieving but I believe he just wants to make my life difficult.

moneyistooshorttomention

One consolation is that I dont think he's out deliberately to "make your life difficult". He wants what HE wants obviously - but I doubt it's a personal "try to get you personally out" thing (I've been on the end of that with my nfh in current house and it definitely did have a personal "hoping I'd go" element:().

So - you havent got the worst possible situation of a double whammy of neighbout wants what THEY personally want AND they want to have a go at you personally/hoping you'll leave.

loveka

It sounds like you will win this, but it will cost you money. As long as you have the money to lose then do it. I wish we had done that, but we really didn't have the money. Our solicitor said to us "If he takes you to court you will win. However, it depends on the day if the judge gives you costs". Typical cost of a boundary dispute are 30k.

One thing is, don't be the one who takes him to court. Let him bring it to court.

We had huge amounts of evidence that the land was ours- photos from 22 years ago, witness statements. But the neighbour insisted the plan showed a straight line and he would not give in.

The wall of his extension is in our garden now. He destroyed my plants and has refused to pay compensation. We have had to pay for new fences as he ripped down the old ones. He didn't get a party wall agreement ( again, we have no legal come back for this) and we now will take him to the small claims court for compensation for our losses. Funnily enough, it is not the sight of the extension that bugs me, but the sight and sound of him.

I do wish we hadn't given in to him (we split the land with him). But the risks were too great. Remember, your neighbour is also risking spending 30k on legal costs, and potentially having to pay some of yours too. So it's a game of poker really. It's a cliche, but the real winners are the lawyers.

Have you sent him a solicitors letter yet, warning him to stop and laying out the consequences? That is a good stating point. You will need a survey if you go to court anyway, so call the RICS and find a specialist to do it. It's about £300-£500.

paddy's_mum

I found the Historic England archive of photographs, held in Swindon and available by post, to be both useful and illuminating.

I couldn't fault the helpfulness of the staff either - truly, a valuable resource in situations such as this one.

Good luck.

paddy's_mum

loveka wrote: »

You will need a survey if you go to court anyway, so call the RICS and find a specialist to do it. It's about £300-£500.

I think you will find that this figure depends quite heavily on how big the area to be surveyed actually is.

In our case, it was an historic smallholding of just on an acre and the survey cost was very much closer to £4000 than £500 - and if you tell the surveyor that the survey is to be as "an expert witness" the costs will also be higher, This is because they have to factor in writing a report to the degree of accuracy and detailed evaluation of the evidence to a level of skill, professionalism and competence acceptable to (potentially) the highest Courts of Law.

pilavas

loveka wrote: »

It sounds like you will win this, but it will cost you money. As long as you have the money to lose then do it. I wish we had done that, but we really didn't have the money. Our solicitor said to us "If he takes you to court you will win. However, it depends on the day if the judge gives you costs". Typical cost of a boundary dispute are 30k.

One thing is, don't be the one who takes him to court. Let him bring it to court.

We had huge amounts of evidence that the land was ours- photos from 22 years ago, witness statements. But the neighbour insisted the plan showed a straight line and he would not give in.

The wall of his extension is in our garden now. He destroyed my plants and has refused to pay compensation. We have had to pay for new fences as he ripped down the old ones. He didn't get a party wall agreement ( again, we have no legal come back for this) and we now will take him to the small claims court for compensation for our losses. Funnily enough, it is not the sight of the extension that bugs me, but the sight and sound of him.

I do wish we hadn't given in to him (we split the land with him). But the risks were too great. Remember, your neighbour is also risking spending 30k on legal costs, and potentially having to pay some of yours too. So it's a game of poker really. It's a cliche, but the real winners are the lawyers.

Have you sent him a solicitors letter yet, warning him to stop and laying out the consequences? That is a good stating point. You will need a survey if you go to court anyway, so call the RICS and find a specialist to do it. It's about £300-£500.

I can't just let him get away with it and speaking with my solicitor he told me to exhaust all avenues before going to court as judges hate people taking boundary disputes to court prematurely.

I am documenting everything and have CCTV setup to keep an eye my the boundary wall, he has not done any further work since I got the police involved.

when I showed him the sworn statement from the previous owner he flat out denied the legal doc and I heard him shouting in polish and then speaking on the phone straight after outside he seemed to have been spooked at the evidence I have.

I need t find a way to record him talking so I can translate to see what he is saying as I don't speak a word of polish lol.

Surely the judge won't award him and penalize me as I did not break the law and followed everything to the book.