THE Prepping thread - a new beginning :)

jim-jim

I would like to say thanks to 'Pineapple' on the info regarding multi stoves. :T

GreyQueen

The issue about charging for NHS services is that it has a lot of unexpected outcomes. As others have pointed out, even a so-called token payment for a visit can be prohibitive for people already on their uppers.

Let's say you don't take your poorly child, or your poorly self, for medical treatment. In some worst cases, you or they may die. In others, you will suffer lasting harm or, in a lesser example, cause greater health expenditures because whatever ailed you wasn't dealt with in a timely manner.

Or what you have is contagious. I really don't fancy the return of the white plague (tuberculosis).

Regarding foriegners accessing our NHS, where would you draw the line? Would you leave car-crash victims or victims of crime lying in pools of blood or dying of sepsis on the side of the road as they weakly-flailed their arms trying to stop the carrion crows pecking out their eyes while they still lived?

If foriegn nationals of countries aren't in reciprocal payment arrangements vis a vis healthcare do end up costing the NHS money, I think stringent efforts to recover that debt should be made after the event, but I cannot see how a civilised society can refuse treatment to someone in dire need and still consider itself to be civilised.

I've often been wryly amused by the NHS's pick & mix policies towards which bodyparts are treated for free and which are chargable. Being a glasses-wearer since aged 13, I've forked out several thousand pounds over the years that someone who wasn't bat-eyed wouldn't have had to pay. Yet no one expects you to pay for the treatment of a dicky heart or gallstones.

Slinky

jk0 wrote: »

They charge to see the doctor where I was brought up in Jersey. It seems fair enough to me. This is the price list for my old doctors: http://www.listersurgeryjersey.co.uk/making-appointments.aspx

Oh wow, that's gone up a lot since I left 22 years ago, I seem to recall it being £10 to see the doctor. A friend of mine used to 'save up' all her problems and made sure she got her 15 minutes worth!

moneyistooshorttomention

I do get your drift GQ - as someone that lands up having money going out at intervals on the fact I'm one of the ones that needs to wear glasses and the double whammy/triple whammy of knowing the genes dictate I might be up for glaucoma and am certainly up for cataracts if I dont "pay damn good heed" to preventive health care (and then keep fingers crossed that will be enough). I guess the "dicky heart" (which my genes dictate I'm also up for personally....) and gallstones are things that are painful/very inconvenient/etc - whereas wearing glasses is something that just mucks up your looks a bit basically.

It really is one of those things where there "are no easy answers" and something somewhere along the line has clearly gotta give (damn it...:mad:) and I do wish we could stick to the "free at point of" idea and I honestly have (very reluctantly) come to the conclusion that we simply can't . I hate/loathe etc the whole idea of "rationing" access to health care as intolerable - but TPTB are rationing us anyway (all that "wait 4 weeks! for access to a doctor and then take the risk they will tell you to p*ss off 7 minutes later whether you've finished "saying your piece" or no) or lying to you and telling you don't need what you darn well DO need.

So - it's back to the self-sufficiency thing as far as possible. For today - I've just ordered a copy of "Where There is No Doctor" from Amazon. I baulked a bit at the price of "Where there is no dentist":eek:. But I could get a keepable paper copy of the "Where there is no doctor" book for less than £10 - so I've bought it. It's en route as we speak.

I'm someone that is quite prepared to sit there in an A & E Dept for hours...and hours...and hours if I damn well must and "scream and scream and scream" whilst doing so - and then present a bill to the Health Authority afterwards for whatever money they've cost me for expenses involved (and regard it as Protest to stop treating people this way).

Basically - I think there is a very similar set-up going on with the NHS to what there is with employers. Those in my agegroup upwards remember what "normal" was like as regards jobs and many of us will never quite accept any worse conditions - even if only by the unhappy expressions on our faces of "This isnt what we are used to". I think the same applies to access to the NHS - ie many of us in this sort of agegroup upwards remember what "Normal" is like as regards access to NHS services.

Gawd help the people coming up behind us in, say, 20 years time that have no personal experience of "Normal Times" and are having to argue back from a viewpoint of never having had that/not being able to remember that personally. I do feel very sorry for the poor b&ggers - as at least those in my agegroup upwards can turn round and say "THIS is how things are - had that standard before - so WILL have it now" and they know we probably have.

lucy_lemon

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'm someone that is quite prepared to sit there in an A & E Dept for hours...and hours...and hours if I damn well must and "scream and scream and scream" whilst doing so - and then present a bill to the Health Authority afterwards for whatever money they've cost me for expenses involved (and regard it as Protest to stop treating people this way).

Basically - I think there is a very similar set-up going on with the NHS to what there is with employers. Those in my agegroup upwards remember what "normal" was like as regards jobs and many of us will never quite accept any worse conditions - even if only by the unhappy expressions on our faces of "This isnt what we are used to". I think the same applies to access to the NHS - ie many of us in this sort of agegroup upwards remember what "Normal" is like as regards access to NHS services.

Gawd help the people coming up behind us in, say, 20 years time that have no personal experience of "Normal Times" and are having to argue back from a viewpoint of never having had that/not being able to remember that personally. I do feel very sorry for the poor b&ggers - as at least those in my agegroup upwards can turn round and say "THIS is how things are - had that standard before - so WILL have it now" and they know we probably have.

I don't usually comment on this thread - although I've been reading along for years - but I felt I had to after reading this. Mainly because I don't really understand what you mean by saying you would sit in A&E and then send your HA a bill. Is this because you feel you are unable to get a drs appointment?

I personally have never had a problem with the NHS. I'm in my late twenties, and recently broke my foot, badly. I went to my local A&E and was seen within 30 minutes. I've been going to fracture clinic every 4 weeks since for an x-ray and consultation with the dr. Again, I never wait for more than 30 minutes. Plenty of my close friends and family work for the NHS, and yeah, it's in a bit of a mess at the moment. But I will always support the principle of free healthcare, and I think you're really wrong to insinuate that people should be forced to pay if things are their own fault. I tripped down two steps and broke my foot, should I pay? Maybe I wasn't looking where I was going, or taking enough care?

Sorry if this doesn't seem to make much sense, but your posts today have really made me feel quite irate. I really think you should be thanking your lucky stars that we have an NHS, instead of a messed up American style system.

Doveling

MITSTM -I understand what you're saying but there comes a point when what is happening is the new "normal" for our present time and we have to adjust and adapt our expectations.
This holds true for both health services and job markets.

"Need" has quite a few definitions :rotfl:

If I "needed" a doctor I know I would be able to see one. Generally, because I've just arrived at A&E in an ambulance.:o

If I "would like" to see my GP for something which is not life threatening or likely to make my health deteriorate rapidly, then I accept that I will have to wait a couple of weeks.:(

I find the best thing to do is make use of my local pharmacist and the practice nurse before I feel it necessary to make an appointment with my GP

Your books sound very useful. Have you done a first aid course as well?:)

Just thought - are you worrying about your parents health again?
Sorry if that is an intrusive question.

moneyistooshorttomention

To clarify - the possible bill I would send to my local Health Authority would be if I had had to spend money on expenses such as taking a taxi to/from nearest A & E Dept for something a doctor (walking distance could/should deal with).

So the bill to be sent to NHS would be for things like@
- taxi fares to/from nearest A & E (ie quite some distance away in some parts of the country)
- etc

because the way the NHS is run had been the reason for having to go to an A & E Dept in the first place (ie as a replacement for going to nearest doctor practice).

It would be a joint:
- why should the patient be the one to cover extra costs for having to go to an A & E Dept for something a local doctor practice should deal with? protest on behalf of everyone else type thing

and

- the individual concerned that had been forced into going for an A & E Dept appointment for something a local doctor practice should deal with may not be able to afford/be prepared to pay for the extra costs involved of having to go elsewhere for treatment that should be available locally.

I am certainly thinking of something that should have been treated easy-peasy and in no time at all locally recently and being put through having to go to a distant A & E Dept and "scream" about it instead - just down to lack of provided resources locally (ie I realised that people locally had been rationed out of such a quick/simple/cheap/easy thing precisely because it had been rationed out of existence). That is not a position I personally think it's fair/reasonable to put people into. That particular situation I was in personally was one where I would have had to choose between spending another couple of hours or so sitting on a bus for something that "shoulda been done locally in 5 minutes flat" on the one hand (and paying for a long-distance taxi back home afterwards) OR finding somewhere locally to have a "bed and breakfast" arrangement overnight after the buses stopped for the day.

I personally do not think that's remotely fair - as I remember when a quick "5 minute job" needing health care access would have been done locally unless someone lived very very remotely indeed.

So - I'm back to = what provisions are people personally making for an incredibly low amount of access to normal NHS services?

Churchmouse

A&E stands for accident and emergency and should never ever be abused for routine, non emergency treatment. It's because people turn up expecting treatment that should be obtained from a GP ( and yes I know the waiting time for an appointment can be lengthy) that we have the situation we are in now. I'd go so far as to say anybody presenting at A&E for non urgent treatment should be charged a hefty sum.

lucy_lemon

MITSTM - I don't even know what to say. Things have changed. I think the centralisation of NHS services is probably a good thing. If you do need to visit a hospital further away from your home than is comfortable by public transport, it may be worth contacting the hospital. I know both the hospitals in my area provide door to door transport.

cbrown372

Oh boy, all that song and dance for a cut finger!

As Lucy says be careful what you wish for, one visit to a walk in medicare centre in Florida, $300, how are you paying Madam, insurance or credit card? I'll pay by credit card thanks. Final bill was $337, the $37 for drugs issued.

They do send free transport to the hotel for you and return you afterwards and while you wait there is a fridge with cold drinks for $2 which was pretty reasonable.