THE Prepping thread - a new beginning :)

lobbyludd

GreyQueen wrote: »

Countries like ours and the US have become deeply divided oligarchies, with obscene levels of wealth and a growing gap between the haves and the have nots.

not commenting on the particular politics, as can be very divisive as we've seen! but I can't think of a period in history where this hasn't been the case? so less of a case of "becoming" and more a case of for a time some small inroads were being made into the iron grip of an oligarchy controlling everything (whether the oligo is made up of aristos or whatever) and inequality with everyone's standard of living increasing somewhat but for a while now those tiny inroads are no longer being made.

I don't anticipate my children having a better life than I've had anymore. So I'm prepping as a way of feeling a little more in control of turbulent times ahead, I don't know if it will do any good, but it helps my anxiety:(

greenbee

GreyQueen wrote: »

The 'they' he was talking about are the gangs of Romanian shoplifters

All the Romanians I know pretend to be Hungarian as unfortunately otherwise it's assumed they're shoplifters and pick-pockets. Even the ones who are earning decent salaries and own their own homes...

GreyQueen

I don't have my own children, lobbyludd, but I have concerns for young adults in my extended family who are having it very tough.

The trajectory of the 20th century was steadily increasing prosperity, comfort and opportunities. The belief that you could study hard, go to university and become a professional person and make a prosperous future. Or learn a trade and have a decent business of your own.

That isn't the case for many now. I think this narrative was dying on its feet as long ago as the 1980s when I did my degree.

The danger of lack of hope is that it leads to anger on one hand, and disengagement/ escapism on the other. People will put up with a lot of things if they can see their way out, or their children's way out, in the fullness of time as a reward for self-sacrifice and hard work.

When your eduction gets you the right to work three part-time unskilled jobs whilst repaying enormous loans, when you can't ever see yourself having more home than a rented room, where you a fenced into corners by decisions made by the wealthy and powerful.......... these are hard things to stomach.

Some people internalise distress and some people externalise it. Even externalise it with extreme prejudice. This is destabilising for civilisation and nothing we should aspire to see in the modern world.:(

mardatha

I don't think much has really changed apart from the huge shifts like the trade unions, suffragettes and the 2 world wars that really opened people's eyes and changed their attitudes. In between all that it's been business as usual, even through times when we thought we were getting better, like Thatchers fake prosperity period. Most of it is, really, bread & circus stuff. No govt wants to empower the workers, it's not in their interests and always causes them trouble. We do really naughty things like ask for more wages and expect a contract of employment and holiday pay ..

thriftwizard

We do really naughty things like ask for more wages and expect a contract of employment and holiday pay ..

Yet without us "consuming" the goods that they own the means of production of, which we can't do if we don't have any money, and won't do if we don't feel secure with what little we do have, they're up the creek without a paddle...

moneyistooshorttomention

This is before anyone starts to think very much about the dawning era of "intelligent" robots.

I can watch this dispassionately (being retired) - so I do and I admit I'd be feeling pretty darn scared if I was still working age (even if I had a career, rather than a job).

Add yesterday's online "Guardian" saying how there are now literally millions of people (in Britain) in insecure employment - ie zero contract or so-called "self-employed", etc.

I must say I do wonder just how many people still have normal jobs/careers - ie full-time/permanent/officially PAYE "employees" or genuinely self-employed.

As you can gather - I'm watching the second series of "Humans" on tv at the moment - and still thinking "It's all too possible - indeed probable". It's fine when one isn't affected by the downside of that sort of thing - and can sit there and think "Worst case analysis - ie of needing someone to do my housework/gardening for me in time to come - and I'd buy an intelligent robot to do it. Quick calculation = around £5,000 as likely price once they went mass market". But for someone of an age to get the downside - eek!

EDIT; Hmmm....visions of a "social premium tax" being put on such things - say £1,000 on a £5,000 HumBot ("human" robot) sounds about right to me. That tax to be specifically towards dealing with the "downsides" of funding displaced workers. Yep...I think it's time to start the planning for how to deal with that...we can't "stop the clock" - but we can mitigate the effects. I would much rather that some of the surplus wealth that people like the kardashians/royalty/etc have was used instead - but I can't see human nature changing unfortunately and it becoming widespread for people to give away their surplus income - darn it!

fuddle

Those that have and those that have not is an age old scenario. Greed, gluttony, laziness, profiteering, lust etc are not modern taints on humanity.

Humanity has, and always will do for itself because that's what we're tuned to do in terms of our survival instinct. Having a 'secure' job is only an extremely modern concept in my opinion. I come from a line of family members that had a very, very hard life in the not so distant past and that was alongside whole communities experiencing and getting by.

Machines are taking jobs but can't spiral into the proportions of a take over simply because there's no point producing if there isn't a buyer and those celebrities with surplus incomes don't prop up the global economy. Those celebs earn their money via product endorsements and advertising. If the general population can't buy then bang. We're built on consumerism and if consumerism is to prosper then folks need to earn to be able to spend.

That said, whatever position humanity finds itself in we will adapt, learn and cope. We're hot on OS living here aren't we and although I can only speak for myself I am keen on it because it's tried and tested strategies that are based on tough times in history. For me, going back so to speak, is one step ahead.

Karmacat

Thats a great summary, fuddle, thank you.

mardatha

Yes it is Always always learn from the past..

culpepper

I think the developers of the self driving cars are discussing a tax to cover the loss of employment their product will influence.
I don't know..why is it right to continue developing machinery that will leave less people in any kind of employment?
People need their purpose, without one, it seems to me, there is little to keep them peaceful and happy.

Back in the 60s there was all that enthusiasm for the ' space age' and dreams of the lovely leisure and freedom that would follow but I'm not sure that they envisaged that as inactivity and compliance somehow.
I think it was really a rich man's view of a rich man's future and little else.

The Luddites were way ahead of their time.