Discriminated by PIP

ab1982

venison wrote: »

Its sad when people come on the internet for advice and suggest someone be kicked off a forum just because they don't give the advice wanted. People often give their time and advice freely only to be castigated for doing exactly that; I think OP that you owe Dom an apology.

Absolultley correct. If posters in this situation were more transparent in their original posting then it would be easier; for example "I'm not looking for advice just getting x off my chest" then it would be easier to distinguish.

Its an internet forum too, its a place for good, bad, right, wrong, strong, weak opinions and if youre taking whats said on here as factual without verifying it then you shouldnt be.

It happens all the time on these boards, someone gets the answer they dont want and then the thread deteriorates into two clear camps moaning at each other, people get called trolls and bashers and all sorts on here simply because they offer a different opinion.

From a practical point of view OP I think as someone else has pointed out only a solicitor can really tell you if you can sue and use legal aid. My right/wrong/good/bad opinion is that next time politeley and firmly explain that you are a she and you can go home safe in the knowledge that you may have helped someone else learn something new.

GlasweJen

I'd start by complaining to the DWP and asking them to correct your paperwork.

tomtontom

Tolly_T wrote: »

It sounds like discrimination to me. There are seven different types of discrimination under the Equality Act. One type is harassment. The Equality and Human Rights Commission website gives an example of harassment in relation to gender reassignment discrimination.



The same website also describes who is protected

OP does not say that they asked the officer to address them as a female. I'm sure if they did the situation would have been resolved immediately, or if disagreement on the term continued the chairperson could have been asked to remedy the situation.

Whilst harassment cannot be justified, a claim can certainly be defended, and in this case that would be quite simple to do, both in terms of vicarious liability and personal.

UKTigerlily

I don't know anything about the legal side of things, but I do have BPD and totally understand how much this matters to you, OP. If they *knew* that you use she/her etc and live as female, regardless as to whether the law or others believe you are or not, then IMO she should've referred to you AS female. It's basic respect i'd've thought. The same as I despise the title Miss, as do most women I know that aren't married, and prefer Ms if they really must use a title (don't get me started on titles lol)

Even if SOME believe that Miss is correct, they should respect that I don't use it.

I don't feel it is something to sue for, but do feel that if you'd asked to be referred to as Miss/she etc and they didn't, then a complaint should definitely be made and I *think* that PALS are the ones to do this/assist. The CAB could maybe offer more advice from the legal side?

I would want to know that it won't happen again, and that the person understands that it's a total lack of respect etc to be that way, regardless of their feelings. We don't all have to agree, I personally accept people's rights to live as the gender they identify with, without harassment or abuse, and have a lot of respect for how difficult it must be to go through transitioning etc, let alone with BPD too which is hell enough alone! BUT I don't personally feel someone is female because they are inside, I believe female is inside and out, and that there are differences that even surgery can't sort.

BUT that is MY view, and I would never refer to someone as he if they put she, or treat someone differently. I really do get how much it must hurt though, from the BPD side alone and have so much respect for people who go with what is right for them no matter how much abuse they may get.

Don't be offended on my personal view, it was only meant to show that I may not see things the same, but I will always treat people as they wish and those others should've too

I hope you can sort this, and really think PALS may help x

Tammykitty

I don't think it can be described as discrimination.


They may have used the wrong title for you, but this by itself does not mean it is discrimination.


O2 mistakenly put my title as Mr (I am female) and continued to use this despite me correcting it on the phone. However, it was not discrimination, just an error in paperwork.

DomRavioli

ninjastriker wrote: »

Dom you are totally wrong, call me a man again and I will report you. you are very discriminating and you deserve to be kicked off this board, for those comments. Sorry but you are totally wrong about that, genetics is a very wrong way of putting it, I suggest you read about transgenders, the gender recogniation act and appoligize to even suggest in the eye of the law im a man. that is uncalled for, wether I had grs surgery or not, I am woman and find that very disrespectful. Please don't speak to me in a threatening manner. There is no need. You asked for help, you were given it. Genetically you are male. You will always be male. You may identify as a female, but genetically you have one X chromasome and one Y chromasome.


it is not about genetics, I may have mental health problems, but I am not stupid. You know wether your a man or a woman from birth, it's a chemical imbalance in your brain. genetics have nothing to do with it, and I prove so much science on that aspect on how much you are wrong, harry benjiman can prove that, the GID clinic in London, who are specialist can prove that as well. Not a clue what this is about.


ive been transitiong as a women for 6 years now, change my name as a woman, I go to london specialit at charing crosss and in the eyes of the law and under the equality and diversity act of 2010, gender recogniation act 2004, if I view myself as a woman, I will be treated as such, regardless of which gender I view myself. I think you mean the Equality Act (which doesn't cover you if you have not got a GRC) as explained by other posters.


I am very well versed about discrimination, this wasn't a mistake at all, as it cleary started miss on my form and then gender was male, their explaination refered me to as he. the assemnet by atos refered me as a she, but the woman from pip, which was at the tribunal refered me as man in their report from that date. And they are allowed to do so under law, as unless you have the GRC, you are still a man.


also you do not need grs to be recognised as your chosen sex, it is a chemical imbalance and you know what gender you are from birth, regarldless what you got below, I hate what I got and have spent my whole life dealing with idiots like you, who think that if you got the part, that is what you are. Legally, you do need to have a GRC to change your gender on legal documentation - that is the whole point of one. You can call yourself what you want, but to legally change your gender, you need one.


consider those who do not either recognise themselves as male or female, or intersex, who have both parts, what you going to call them he/she, it, gender benders, because your ego and lack of understanding is what you think is right. yes I get suicidal tendicies from my bpd, but im explaining the problem and asking for simple advice, I have mental health problems, don't treat me like you have all the answers, as it looks like you don't. if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything and go back to the stone age. As someone who has had BPD for 23 years and not let it turn me into a psychopath, I know exactly when someone is throwing a BPD fit.


cleiefin and uktigerlily, thanks for the support. It wasn't a mistake, as she was sitting next to me, the judge called me miss and I was clearly looking like a woman, in my paperwork to pip, I'm put down as miss and class as a woman.


I didn't wear makeup, because I havn't looked after myself for years and my carer helps me, but she and everybody in the room clearly saw me and refered me as a woman, except for the woman from pip. on my paperwork it says transgender, im a MTF and see myself as a woman, plus I have the top package that is clearly seen, so I don't know how it could of been a mistake or confusing.


sorry for the rants, but im just after a bit of advise and don't know which why to turn. I thought this board was the right place to turn to, but now I feel like their are still single minded people who don't understand the full nature or transgender/mental health problems.


I will keep an open mind and check again, but im seriously thinking of quiting the board if I am getting attack for asking a simple question. expect for the two I mentioned, who advise is good and no offense was taking.

You can't pick and choose the advice. If you want clear legal advice then you need to speak to a legal professional with formal and professional training within this sector of law, not an online forum where anyone can post.

DomRavioli

Celifein wrote: »

I don't believe he was. He said:

That doesn't sound like someone describing applying for a GRC. You wouldn't say:

It doesn't make sense grammatically or in terms of context. You don't "have" it (you apply for it or are awarded it) and there's no such thing as a partial GRC, so there'd be no need to refer to a "full" one.

Firstly, I'm female. It isn't all its cracked up to be.

SEcondly I did mean the certificate. My grammatr can be bad because I am partially sighted. Does that mean I can sue you for your discrimination against my very real disability? See how stupid it sounds?

As I am quite happy in my own gender, and not a specialist in LGBTQ law specifically (but have worked extensively with the Equality Act) I am not an expert. You need to pay for legal advice (although it would be throwing good money away).

Tammykitty

Celifein wrote: »

Does it bother you? If so, write to them, explain that you're transgender and you want it to be changed to a more appropriate title.

I am not transgender, O2 just made a simple mistake in my title and incorrectly refer to me a Mr.


Using a wrong title is not discrimination though


discrimination

1. 1.
   the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
   "victims of racial discrimination"
   
   
   
   

What prejudicial or unjust treatment results from using the wrong title?

ab1982

Celifein wrote: »

The woman had been clearly informed that the OP identifies as female and they continued to call her male. If nothing else, she deserves an apology.

Clearly informed? I am not sure if that was the case based on the infromation the OP has provided it was paper based. I'd agree this is out of order if the woman has been activley asked to refer to someone as he/she but I think its churlish to attempt to sue someone based on what could be an honest mistake.

ab1982

Celifein wrote: »

I don't see why the request being paper based makes it less valid. Unless you're suggesting that the woman representing the PIP assessment team didn't read the OP's paperwork, so is incompetent rather than prejudiced?

I'm not convinced suing is the way forward either. I would be asking for an apology and an assurance that staff will be properly trained though.

Dont know, not seen the paperwork in question.