About to exchange - new structural wall query

junebug87

After 12 weeks, we are about the exchange our contracts on our first property.

I spoke to the solicitor this morning who has informed me that the seller hasn't been able to provide official documentation about a wall they removed in the kitchen to create a kitchen diner They have said the builder told them it was safe to remove and that they are happy to put it in writing that it is safe, but have no documentation to prove this.

The homebuyers survey said this:

The property has been altered including the removal of several original internal
walls in the kitchen. Legal adviser to confirm that Local Authority approvals were
obtained and complied with. There will be complications if you proceed without the
relevant documentation for works that have been carried out.

We're so close to the end, I would hate for it to fall through. Is there anything I can do to find out if this was safely done or not? I.e. would I need to get a structural survey done for example? Or just a builder to come and look at it? And would this cost fall with the seller?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

david1951

Are you buying with a mortgage? You can usually get indemnity insurance to keep the mortgage provider happy if that is what the solicitor is worried about. They usually try to sell you this anyway.


However, this doesn't cover shoddy building work so you also want to satisfy yourself that the removal of the internal walls was done properly. Personally I would get a surveyor in to look at them (doesn't need to be a full survey) but that might be being over-cautious. If the work was carried out ages ago and they are still standing, then they may be fine.

cloo

It shouldn't be an insurmountable problem - as david says above, get someone qualified to look and it's likely fine if it's been that way for some time. Taking out a wall isn't necessarily rocket science, as long as they've got a proper beam in if structural it should be all right.

junebug87

Thanks for your advice.

I got in touch with the surveyor who originally performed the homebuyers report and asked for some additional advice. He has expressed a lot of concern about the lack of paperwork. In his opinion, the wall would have been a supporting wall and so the work carried out should have included the necessary level of support. He is 'alarmed' by the fact the owners do not have any sort of documentation on this work. He has advised against us simply getting indemnity insurance for this issue, due to the fact that the work was undertaken less than a year ago. He has said that unless we want to risk it (and potentially have problems when we come to sell the house ourselves) the only option is to arrange building work to take down the ceiling, assess the situation and add in the necessary supports if required.

I also spoke with a solicitor who has advised getting a building regulation certificate from the council. This would involve someone doing an inspection to ensure it meets the local authority buildings regulations, they would then provide us with a certificate which we could use as 'proof' that the work has been carried out correctly.

Two quite conflicting views. I can't work out if the surveyor is being overly dramatic, or whether the solicitor is being too blase!

Any thoughts??

Davesnave

junebug87 wrote: »

I also spoke with a solicitor who has advised getting a building regulation certificate from the council. This would involve someone doing an inspection to ensure it meets the local authority buildings regulations, they would then provide us with a certificate which we could use as 'proof' that the work has been carried out correctly.

Two quite conflicting views. I can't work out if the surveyor is being overly dramatic, or whether the solicitor is being too blase!

Any thoughts??

The surveyor is right and the solicitor is also right.

Someone who does notifiable work without notifying the council is a bodger who cuts corners. A 'builder' who colludes with this: ditto. It just isn't worth it, as this vendor is likely to find out very soon.

Because the work is recent, you have no guarantee it won't begin to fail in the next few years. If it had been done 20 years ago, and there was no movement, you could be more confident, but the jury is still out on this.

As the solicitor says, the council can inspect the work and issue a cerificate of compliance, but if steels or other major supports have been used, a fair amount of invasive exposure will be required. It isn't going to be pretty!

And if they haven't?......Oh dear!

Will the vendor agree to having the walls hacked into? Probably not, until it dawns on them that any sane buyer is going to make the same sort of demands.

When will this be? Impossible to say.

Yes you've invested time and money in this property, but it wasn't wasted if it now enables you to negotiate hard over remediation, or to walk away from a lemon, if that's too much bother for you or the vendor.

Indemnity insurance wouldn't cut it for me.

david1951

Less than year?! In that case you would even find it difficult to find an indemnity policy, although that should be the least of your worries. I would press them for information or consider pulling out. After all this is why you pay money for a survey

eddddy

As others say...

You will have trouble getting indemnity insurance for work done less than a year ago.

For a building control certificate -
- Best case: plaster hacked of walls, etc. and Structural Engineer checks it and it gets signed off.
- Worst case: as above, but work is unacceptable. e.g. RSJ is undersized and needs to be replaced.


Bear in mind that the vendors were probably naive rather than bad. Sadly, if a homeowner doesn't know about building regs, I've come across many builders who just get on and do work without mentioning them.

In fact, if the vendors knew what they were doing, they would realise they were making their house almost unsaleable,

Davesnave

eddddy wrote: »

Bear in mind that the vendors were probably naive rather than bad. Sadly, if a homeowner doesn't know about building regs, I've come across many builders who just get on and do work without mentioning them.

In fact, if the vendors knew what they were doing, they would realise they were making their house almost unsaleable,

Yes, there is a good chance that the owners will be innocent , or maybe a bit disorganised , as who would do all that work and then decide to move within the year?

glasgowdan

I'd offer a large chunk less or walk away. It's got to be enough to comfortably cover a significant piece of remedial work.

phoebe1989seb

david1951 wrote: »

Less than year?! In that case you would even find it difficult to find an indemnity policy, although that should be the least of your worries. I would press them for information or consider pulling out. After all this is why you pay money for a survey

I agree, although it is possible to get indemnity insurance for work less than a year old, as I know from experience

We sold our last house in 2014 and as there had been a mix up over the new hardwood DG sash Windows we had had installed it turned out the building regs we had for the rest of our alterations didn't cover these - the local joinery co wasn't FENSA - and our solicitor really struggled to find a policy that would cover the work that had been done only six months previously, this being the final job in a restoration that had taken us three and a half years to complete.

Eventually he was successful, but the policy was considerably more expensive.

Our buyers would have been more than happy to proceed without it - they knew the reputation of the joinery concerned - but their lender and solicitor obviously wanted the *reassurance* a policy would provide.

eddddy

glasgowdan wrote: »

I'd offer a large chunk less or walk away. It's got to be enough to comfortably cover a significant piece of remedial work.

Offering less is definitely a possibility - unless you need a mortgage.

Mortgage lenders probably won't lend in these circumstances (i.e. no building regs and unable to get indemnity insurance.)