Rejecting Oven

Nebulous2

Hi folks -

I bought an oven hob and cooker hood from Currys on 30-5-16. They were delivered on 6-6-16. We were installing a kitchen and didn't unwrap the oven until yesterday 28-6-16. There was a significant dent in the back of the casing, probably acquired in transit, but as it was not noticeable from the front we tried it anyway, only to find the fan is not working.

I phoned Currys this morning but was transferrred automatically to Bosch. He said there was a 28 day return period (from sale, nit delivery) and as we were outside that our only option was an engineer visit to repair. I was unhappy with that but booked a visit.

I then realised the consumer rights act gave me 30 days so I have emailed Currys to reject the oven.

Questions from that - are the 30 days from sale or delivery? Today would be the 30th day from the sale.

Any other thoughts on what I should do - simply remove it and wait for Curry's response?

I'm disapppointed in Bosch. We've bought a lot of their stuff, which has been very good and we expected customer service to match - the 28 not 30 days was particularly unhelpful.

wealdroam

Nebulous2 wrote: »

Hi folks -

I bought an oven hob and cooker hood from Currys on 30-5-16. They were delivered on 6-6-16. We were installing a kitchen and didn't unwrap the oven until yesterday 28-6-16. There was a significant dent in the back of the casing, probably acquired in transit, but as it was not noticeable from the front we tried it anyway, only to find the fan is not working.

I phoned Currys this morning but was transferrred automatically to Bosch. He said there was a 28 day return period (from sale, nit delivery) and as we were outside that our only option was an engineer visit to repair. I was unhappy with that but booked a visit.

I then realised the consumer rights act gave me 30 days so I have emailed Currys to reject the oven.

Questions from that - are the 30 days from sale or delivery? Today would be the 30th day from the sale.

Any other thoughts on what I should do - simply remove it and wait for Curry's response?

I'm disapppointed in Bosch. We've bought a lot of their stuff, which has been very good and we expected customer service to match - the 28 not 30 days was particularly unhelpful.

The Consumer Rights Act gives you thirty days from the date of delivery to reject goods that do not conform to contract and receive a full refund.

Section 22 of the CRA includes:

(3) The time limit for exercising the short-term right to reject (unless subsection (4) applies) is the end of 30 days beginning with the first day after these have all happened—

(a) ownership or (in the case of a contract for the hire of goods, a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sales contract) possession of the goods has been transferred to the consumer,

(b) the goods have been delivered, and

(c) where the contract requires the trader to install the goods or take other action to enable the consumer to use them, the trader has notified the consumer that the action has been taken.

deanos

They are entitled to send someone out to confirm what you have said tho, so let them come and don't let them repair it and ask for a refund

Nebulous2

I've received a response today to say that under their returns policy I have to notify any damage within 48 hours, so I cannot reject the oven. I've responded to say that is not acceptable and if they do not provide a better response by 5pm on Wednesday I will make a chargeback from my credit card.

I'm assuming the Bosch engineer is still visiting on Monday, so he can inspect it if he likes, but I wont let him repair it.

shaun_from_Africa

Send another e-mail and inform that you are not returning the over under their returns policy.
You are rejecting under your statutory rights granted by the Consumer rights act.

Nebulous2

This is becoming silly. I've had another email from Curry's claiming that the consumer credit act didn't cover physical damage, and the fact I installed the oven meant I had accepted it.

Neither of these claims has any basis in the Consumer credit act, as far as I can see.

I've now tried to initiate a chargeback from my credit card, but even there I've been given the runaround.

I intended having most appliances Bosch in stainless steel, but given the difficulties I've had I'm thinking on jumping ship and moving to another provider.

wealdroam

Nebulous2 wrote: »

This is becoming silly. I've had another email from Curry's claiming that the consumer credit act didn't cover physical damage, and the fact I installed the oven meant I had accepted it.

Neither of these claims has any basis in the Consumer credit act, as far as I can see.

I've now tried to initiate a chargeback from my credit card, but even there I've been given the runaround.

I intended having most appliances Bosch in stainless steel, but given the difficulties I've had I'm thinking on jumping ship and moving to another provider.

There are a couple things that make your saga a little more difficult to understand.

The Consumer Rights Act is something different to The Consumer Credit Act.

A chargeback is different to a claim under Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act.

You have already been advised, see post#2, that under Section 22 of The Consumer Rights Act you have 30 days to confirm that the goods conform to contract.

The dent and the fan not working are two indications that the thing does not conform to contract.

You may like to point out to Currys that you were prepared to accept the dent, but how were you to know that the fan wasn't working until it was connected?

Alternatively, you may just want to send them a letter before action, stating the problem and advising them that they have fourteen days to collect the oven and provide a full refund. If the don't do that then you'll start court action without further notice.

Your other option was to claim a refund under Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act.
Read MSE's Section 75 article for further details on that.
You'll have to do better than telling us you're being "given the runaround" if you want any help with that.

Nebulous2

Thanks - apologies for that, I meant the consumer rights act. The email from Currys says:-

"The Consumer Rights covers faulty items to be returned within 30 days, you have stated that this is a dent which is classed as physical damage which is not covered. You have also had the item install which is counted as accepting the goods."

Fortunately I didn't quote the consumer credit act to them.

I had a visit from the Bosch engineer yesterday, who said he would advise the oven was damaged and I had refused the repair.

I've now given up on a replacement and am going for a refund, as I have a new kitchen and no oven. I will source a new oven elsewhere.

I suppose I was trying to have my cake and eat it, as I thought I could do a chargeback and leave Currys to chase me for the money, rather than me having to do a LBA and take them to court.

The credit card I used was a Nationwide one and when I phoned their customer service line I was told they would send out chargeback forms, I had to complete them, return them and await a claim handler to contact me before they did a chargeback. This is to make sure they "follow Visa rules."

In many ways I've had great good fortune over the years, lots of financial products, lots of discounted products, cashbacks, £1000s in online purchases and rarely the hint of a dispute.

I naively thought I would mention the consumer rights act and Currys would buckle and send me a new oven. I also assumed I would phone Nationwide and the money would wing its way back into my account straight away without forms, proof, copies of correspondence etc.

I didn't mention Nationwide as I had considered opening a new thread in the credit card section, my primary concern is dealing with Currys. I'm not sure I want to open a whole new battle with section 75 at this point.

neilmcl

I can see Curry's point regarding the dent as it would be difficult for you to prove that having had the oven for nearly a month and installed it you hadn't caused it yourself. The faulty fan is a different matter, unless of course it can be linked as a result of the dent. What did the Bosch engineer say as to the reason for the faulty fan?

Nebulous2

neilmcl wrote: »

I can see Curry's point regarding the dent as it would be difficult for you to prove that having had the oven for nearly a month and installed it you hadn't caused it yourself. The faulty fan is a different matter, unless of course it can be linked as a result of the dent. What did the Bosch engineer say as to the reason for the faulty fan?

The dent is significant. It looks as though it has been dropped and the engineer believes that has caused the damage to the fan. He also said he would be concerned that the chassis was damaged.

Curry's installed the hob on 20/6/16 and the gas engineer commented on the certificate that the kitchen was under construction and the oven had not yet been installed.

unholyangel

Btw when they talk of accepting the goods....a little explanation may clear up the confusion.

Under the old Sale of Goods Act, there was a section on acceptance of the goods which stated that acceptance could happen when you treated the goods in a way that was inconsistent with the seller being the owner of the goods (ie treating them as your own), however this did not apply where the goods were delivered to the buyer and the buyer had not previously examined them (like in your case). In those cases, acceptance wouldn't occur until the buyer had a reasonable opportunity to examine the goods to assess whether they conform to contract. What was a reasonable time could only be determined by a court of law and would depend on the goods in question. You'd have relatively short period for say a wooden ruler but you could have months if say you bought winter sports equipment in summer.

What the Consumer Rights Act did was replace that section on acceptance and instead of your right to reject for a refund being contingent on either treating them as your own or a reasonable time passing without you rejecting them (depending on if you had a chance to examine the goods prior to delivery or not), you now have that right for 30 days.

And even under the old SoGA where you had accepted the goods, the seller remained liable to provide a remedy if the goods consequently proved to be inherently faulty. Period of limitation for action founded on simple contract is 6 years from purchase in england & wales and 5 years from discovery in scotland. By trying to tell you differently, they may also be guilty of a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations - which make it an offence to mislead consumers about their rights.