Ordinary people vs the elite/establishment

Mistermeaner

Has the establishment lost touch with the ordinary people?

Do the elite sit in their ivory towers looking after themselves and their banker cronies at the expense of hard working people of sunderland?

Who is ordinary and who is elite? Why did it all go so horribly wrong?

mrginge

I blame thatcher

missbiggles1

mrginge wrote: »

I blame thatcher

You can't go far wrong with that!

Mistermeaner

mrginge wrote: »

I blame thatcher

This sort of thing ^

An off the cuff 'witty' quip that will get mutters of agreement from a portion of the population. But what do you actually mean?

Given the relative success of free market capitalism across the globe vs socialist approaches - would you prefer we were still mining coal?

What about the long lasting economic damage caused by the blair brown welfare state - billions still being paid out to people not to work. What lasting benefit has that provided?

I suspect that without Thatcher there is no way many would enjoy the benefits, pensions and NHS they do today as UK PLC would have gone the way of Greece many years ago.

Of course I'm probably part of the elite (fulltime working 30 something single parent of one in 2 bed semi living in north england)

Kim_13

The former.

We joined for trade, not to have more and more of our laws dictated to us via various directives. Not all of them are bad (and workers' rights should absolutely stay as the EU has legislated) but too many of them are simply unnecessary.

Any say we had in the making of those laws has decreased far too much with the rapid expansion of the EU in recent years. The EU expansion has also made the 'open door' a problem when it was a minor issue before.

On this occasion I don't think the fault was the government's - ordinary people didn't expect the result to go the way it did. Many were hopeful, but in their heart of hearts expected a narrow defeat rather than a narrow victory.

Mistermeaner

Kim_13 wrote: »

The former.

We joined for trade, not to have more and more of our laws dictated to us via various directives. Not all of them are bad (and workers' rights should absolutely stay as the EU has legislated) but too many of them are simply unnecessary.

Any say we had in the making of those laws has decreased far too much with the rapid expansion of the EU in recent years. The EU expansion has also made the 'open door' a problem when it was a minor issue before.

On this occasion I don't think the fault was the government's - ordinary people didn't expect the result to go the way it did. Many were hopeful, but in their heart of hearts expected a narrow defeat rather than a narrow victory.

Which laws were unnecessary?

You mentioned you joined for trade - what value do you place on getting rid of the laws you mention above vs the resulting loss in trade from exiting?

Im sure you've already got the specific answers to these questions having come to a reasoned decision having analyses the facts. Of course there is no way you would make such an important decision as leave without a full understanding of such things.

Kohoutek

Kim_13 wrote: »

We joined for trade, not to have more and more of our laws dictated to us via various directives. Not all of them are bad (and workers' rights should absolutely stay as the EU has legislated) but too many of them are simply unnecessary.

Can you give some examples of the many unnecessary EU laws?

Prothet_of_Doom

I quote :
What went wrong?

The elite/establishment has lost touch with ordinary people
The majority of people arent qualified to make important decisions

The problem is that the answer is not one or the other BUT both. Please change the voting system so I can vote for both. :T

Oh and Yes Thatcher.

She was the beginning of politians who were not there to serve the people, but their to serve THEIR people (and themselves).

Before we were governed by the Great and/or the Good, and after we were governed by the greedy and the mean.

PixelPound

Mistermeaner wrote: »

This sort of thing ^

An off the cuff 'witty' quip that will get mutters of agreement from a portion of the population. But what do you actually mean?

Given the relative success of free market capitalism across the globe vs socialist approaches - would you prefer we were still mining coal?

You mean mining coal in a job you start from leaving school until you retire verses a zero-hour contract at Sports Direct where you turn up at the start of your shift and told if your needed or should go home unpaid. Hmmm.

So the self-centred British culture that looks out for what they can get themselves and no sense of community has nothing to do with Thatcherism? The Blair/Brown years of welfare promotion only compounded the situation. Work-shy populous who think its their right to claim everything.

wymondham

At least Thatcher was a strong leader .... pity we don't have one at present......

mrginge

I don't really blame thatcher. At least in the 80s you knew what you were getting with politicians.

These days they're mainly insipid, vacuous oxygen thieves who won't commit to anything and just repeat bland statements of nothingness in desperate attempts to avoid upsetting any particular section of society.