Thieves

fred246

After privatization of energy I used to change supplier regularly. Every time I changed one of the suppliers would steal money from me. I got so fed up of sorting it out that I just couldn't be bothered changing anymore. I have just changed again. The supplier I was leaving sent me a final bill. You are in debit by £x. We will take a final payment of £x + nearly £100. I just phoned them up. 'Why are you charging £x+100 instead of £x. Sorry it's a mistake I can't explain. We will charge you £x. This must be normal behaviour as I have had it every time. Surely some-one should be able to stop corporate theft like this.

HappyMJ

fred246 wrote: »

After privatization of energy I used to change supplier regularly. Every time I changed one of the suppliers would steal money from me. I got so fed up of sorting it out that I just couldn't be bothered changing anymore. I have just changed again. The supplier I was leaving sent me a final bill. You are in debit by £x. We will take a final payment of £x + nearly £100. I just phoned them up. 'Why are you charging £x+100 instead of £x. Sorry it's a mistake I can't explain. We will charge you £x. This must be normal behaviour as I have had it every time. Surely some-one should be able to stop corporate theft like this.

Cancel the DD and they can't take the money. Then you have more negotiating power to get them to prove the figures are correct.

fred246

I have sorted it as I always do. However, most people don't even check the figures. There should be a penalty for them trying to steal money. My feeling is that they systematically try to steal from everyone and they will get away with it most of the time. The only penalty for overcharging is that they have to put it right IF the customer notices and can be bothered complaining.

poppellerant

HappyMJ wrote: »

Cancel the DD and they can't take the money. Then you have more negotiating power to get them to prove the figures are correct.

This is what I did when previously changing. I cancelled the direct debit the day before I was supplied by the new suppler, that way the old suppler couldn't try to charge me standard rates for not having direct debit setup.

fred246

One of the suppliers started to send me a monthly bill which I always checked the continuity from the previous bill. After about 5 months one of the meter readings had an A after it. When I looked this meant it had been manually adjusted. It added about £80 to my account. I phoned them up 'why have you adjusted my meter reading' 'Er I am sorry I can't understand that I will put it back to normal'. I am convinced that this sort of theft is normal for the industry.

HappyMJ

fred246 wrote: »

One of the suppliers started to send me a monthly bill which I always checked the continuity from the previous bill. After about 5 months one of the meter readings had an A after it. When I looked this meant it had been manually adjusted. It added about £80 to my account. I phoned them up 'why have you adjusted my meter reading' 'Er I am sorry I can't understand that I will put it back to normal'. I am convinced that this sort of theft is normal for the industry.

"A" should mean Actual. You should get one of these every year.

"C" should mean Customer. This is the reading you supply. The more readings you supply the more accurate your billing will be.

"E" should mean Estimated. This is when they have no reading and have to guess. It could be way out.

footyguy

poppellerant wrote: »

... I cancelled the direct debit the day before I was supplied by the new suppler, that way the old suppler couldn't try to charge me standard rates for not having direct debit setup.

Why not? :huh:

Direct debit is only a method of payment; it does not affect the underlying contract of what a supplier may charge in that respect.

I would not recommend cancelling a direct debit mandate, especially if the contract requires you to pay by direct debit (e.g. often because it provides for a lower cost)

If the supplier processes the final collection as such, that will prevent them from making further collectiuons anyway. Even if they don't process the collection that way, it is not like a standing order; the supplier needs to reuest each collection seperately and if nothing is owed under the contract then hopefully they will not collect anything.

I remember when I was with EDF and switched to a new supplier, I received a final bill from EDF and as the account was already in credit, no more DD collections were attempted. Having noticed the the DD mandate was still live on my bank account, (as at the time EDF made the last collection they were not aware it would be the last) I eventually did cancel the mandate. That caused a snotty letter from EDF saying they were aware of the cancellation I had made, and then they issued a revised bill going back 3 months based on a much more expensive tariff saying I was no longer entitled to the tariff I had chosen as I had cancelled the DD mandate - the cheap tariff required a DD mandate in place. That meant I now owed EDF money rather than EDF owing me money.

Eventually I got it sorted out, but it wasn't easy.

And that is when I discovered the supplier can resurrect cancelled DD mandates anyway! :eek:

Not only was it a surprise to me at the time this was even possible, but when I questioned why they had done so after we agreed it was them that owed me money rather than the other way round (and of course I was no longer supplied by them so no accrual of further charges), they explained they needed my bank details to refund me what I was owed, and so they needed a live DD mandate in place to see what my bank details were to do this.

So my advice is no, don't cancel your DD mandate unless and until you have had the final bill, and any monies owed either way are settled, and then be careful what happens if you decide to cancel the mandate yourself.
A mandate will normally fall dormant (essentially cancelled) if no collection is made within 13 months, and don't forget you are always covered by the Direct Debit Guarantee anyway

fred246

HappyMJ wrote: »

"A" should mean Actual. You should get one of these every year.

"C" should mean Customer. This is the reading you supply. The more readings you supply the more accurate your billing will be.

"E" should mean Estimated. This is when they have no reading and have to guess. It could be way out.

With this supplier most were estimated as each month had a closing and opening figure. Each month I checked that they matched up. Then one month the opening figure was adjusted so I paid £80 extra. When I complained they just put it back to the closing figure from the month before as it always should have been. What I find interesting is that they never have any explanation. They just give you your money back. If I went to Tescos and walked out with £100 of goods and was caught by security I wouldn't just be able to say 'Have them back. Sorry for that error. I don't know how that happened."

System

fred246 wrote: »

With this supplier most were estimated as each month had a closing and opening figure. Each month I checked that they matched up. Then one month the opening figure was adjusted so I paid £80 extra. When I complained they just put it back to the closing figure from the month before as it always should have been. What I find interesting is that they never have any explanation. They just give you your money back. If I went to Tescos and walked out with £100 of goods and was caught by security I wouldn't just be able to say 'Have them back. Sorry for that error. I don't know how that happened."

We have been here before. When actual meter readings are used - either those provided by the customer (annotated C) or taken by a meter reader (annotated with an A), then for simple meters, suppliers in my experience bill accurately. If a customer fails to provide any meter readings, then the supplier has no option but to estimate usage (annotated with an E) and Bill accordingly.

As others have said, payments made are nothing more than payments made on account. Problems can occur with complex meters due to simple human error.

I fail to see how you can accuse a supplier of theft? Theft is a criminal act so if you feel that theft has taken place then report the supplier to the Police. I have no recollection of any supplier being taken to Court for theft.

firefox1956

"And that is when I discovered the supplier can resurrect cancelled DD mandates anyway! :eek:"
I don't think people realise that suppliers can do this..........

GingerBob_3

firefox1956 wrote: »

"And that is when I discovered the supplier can resurrect cancelled DD mandates anyway! :eek:"
I don't think people realise that suppliers can do this..........

I didn't think this was possible under any circumstances. Is it definitely correct?