Cuts and austerity

CLAPTON

hildosaver wrote: »

I suggest you read up a little on Irish history if you do not realise that the partition of Ireland did actually cause some problems - I don't have the time to explain it to you. Perhaps you may have heard of 'The Troubles'? Was a spot of bother that occurred because of the border. I'm still 99% sure you are trolling me here because you must be the only person in the UK not aware that a border between NI and ROI caused 'issues'.

Are you seriously telling me the troubles had anything to do with being in or out of the EU?
Are you seriously telling me that 'partition' ended when Ireland joined the EU in 1973?
None of the troubles had anything to do with being in or out of the EU.

And the EU had no influence on the peace process which was facilitated by the non EU Americans

you have taken leave of your senses.

learn some Irish history for goodness sake

hildosaver

CLAPTON wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me the troubles had anything to do with the in or out of the EU?
Are you seriously telling me that 'partition' ended when Ireland joined the EU in 1973?
None of the troubles had anything to do with being in or out of the EU.

And the EU had no influence on the peace process which was facilitated by the non EU Americans

you have taken leave of your senses.

learn some Irish history for goodness sake

The Troubles had nothing to do with the EU - correct - did I say that though? Nope. What I said was that leaving the EU when the majority of people in NI voted to stay and which will likely result in a hard border returning for the first time since the Good Friday agreement and the likely removal of EU funding to post-conflict community development initiatives is a body blow to the community here and will add fuel to the fire of political instablity and anti-UK sentiment. It is a destablising result that could have dire consequences for the peace process and the future of NI.

I'm talking about there here and now - how the result may impact on NI today.

CLAPTON

hildosaver wrote: »

The Troubles had nothing to do with the EU - correct - did I say that though? Nope. What I said was that leaving the EU when the majority of people in NI voted to stay and which will likely result in a hard border returning for the first time since the Good Friday agreement and the likely removal of EU funding to post-conflict community development initiatives is a body blow to the community here and will add fuel to the fire of political instablity and anti-UK sentiment. It is a destablising result that could have dire consequences for the peace process and the future of NI.

I'm talking about there here and now - how the result may impact on NI today.

so what are the massive problems with a country having a border with the EU?

hildosaver

CLAPTON wrote: »

so what are the massive problems with a country having a border with the EU?

Firstly, it's not just a border with the EU - it will be a return to a hard border to the ROI which politically and symbolically is very damaging.

Secondly a hard border is a barrier for trade between NI and ROI on which both countries heavily rely - there will be customs, etc. that will be a massive backwards step economically.

Thirdly the likelihood that people may have to go through border controls to enter NI will have an impact on tourism here as it will put people off driving up from ROI (this has been growing for the last few years and is likely to be hit badly - yet more bad news for the economy)

Forthly there will need to be a massive security presence at the border to protect it from people travelling over to ROI from the rest of the EU trying to get into the UK - more UK security on the ground again is symbolically very damaging.

I could go on but I cannot think of a single positive to try and balance the argument - it is all very bad news for NI.

CLAPTON

hildosaver wrote: »

Firstly, it's not just a border with the EU - it will be a return to a hard border to the ROI which politically and symbolically is very damaging.

Secondly a hard border is a barrier for trade between NI and ROI on which both countries heavily rely - there will be customs, etc. that will be a massive backwards step economically.

Thirdly the likelihood that people may have to go through border controls to enter NI will have an impact on tourism here as it will put people off driving up from ROI (this has been growing for the last few years and is likely to be hit badly - yet more bad news for the economy)

Forthly there will need to be a massive security presence at the border to protect it from people travelling over to ROI from the rest of the EU trying to get into the UK - more UK security on the ground again is symbolically very damaging.

I could go on but I cannot think of a single positive to try and balance the argument - it is all very bad news for NI.

where have you read this stuff?
what stops non EU people in Eire crossing the border today?
why would it be different for EU people in the future?

hildosaver

CLAPTON wrote: »

where have you read this stuff?
what stops non EU people in Eire crossing the border today?
why would it be different for EU people in the future?

Nothing stops them crossing the border today because today both the UK and ROI are in the EU.

Are you not the same person who in another thread was crowing in delight about how immigrants would find it much harder to enter the UK? Are you now arguing that in the future there will be no change in immigrants entering the UK? Make your mind up man.

CLAPTON

hildosaver wrote: »

Nothing stops them crossing the border today because today both the UK and ROI are in the EU.

Are you not the same person who in another thread was crowing in delight about how immigrants would find it much harder to enter the UK? Are you now arguing that in the future there will be no change in immigrants entering the UK? Make your mind up man.

You clearly know little of Irish history and even less about the Eu.

The reason that all the peoples of the world can cross in the UK isn't because Ireland and the UK are part of the EU as Ireland is NOT part of the Schengen area.

In general non EU ciizens travelling from the EU (excluding the Republic) DO NOT have the right to enter the UK.
As you know BEFORE Ireland was part of the EU there was free travel of people between the UK and the Republic and it is the pre EU agreements that still exist today.

Now I don't know what will happen after brexit as it will depend upon the attitude of the Republic, the EU and the UK.

However, if the people of the north wanted to re-unite with the south then that would be another matter and then the Republic could subsidise the north instead.

hildosaver

CLAPTON wrote: »

You clearly know little of Irish history and even less about the Eu.

The reason that all the peoples of the world can cross in the UK isn't because Ireland and the UK are part of the EU as Ireland is NOT part of the Schengen area.

In general non EU ciizens travelling from the EU (excluding the Republic) DO NOT have the right to enter the UK.
As you know BEFORE Ireland was part of the EU there was free travel of people between the UK and the Republic and it is the pre EU agreements that still exist today.

Now I don't know what will happen after brexit as it will depend upon the attitude of the Republic, the EU and the UK.

However, if the people of the north wanted to re-unite with the south then that would be another matter and then the Republic could subsidise the north instead.

Once again you are completely ignoring the points I made and in fact once again are winning my argument for me - you have clarified that Non-EU cannot freely move into the UK and there is a possiblity that once the UK leaves the EU there will be additional restrictions on EU members entering the country (this as you have said yourself in another thread is what you voted for). This just reinforces what I said about the border and the security/customs/border controls that will have to be implemented.

Your last sentence betrays how you view NI and gives the impression you couldn't care one jot if NI (or I suspect Scotland) left the UK and the UK essentially ceased to exist. BREXIT has been a victory for English nationalists and nobody else.

BJV

hildosaver wrote: »

Firstly, it's not just a border with the EU - it will be a return to a hard border to the ROI which politically and symbolically is very damaging.

Secondly a hard border is a barrier for trade between NI and ROI on which both countries heavily rely - there will be customs, etc. that will be a massive backwards step economically.

Thirdly the likelihood that people may have to go through border controls to enter NI will have an impact on tourism here as it will put people off driving up from ROI (this has been growing for the last few years and is likely to be hit badly - yet more bad news for the economy)

Forthly there will need to be a massive security presence at the border to protect it from people travelling over to ROI from the rest of the EU trying to get into the UK - more UK security on the ground again is symbolically very damaging.

I could go on but I cannot think of a single positive to try and balance the argument - it is all very bad news for NI.

Tourism? Well my parents are Irish. One northern catholic and one Northern Protestant. They left during the "troubles " to come over here and went back to ROI 15 years ago.

They only went back to NI to do the shopping. Honestly they take a day a month and go up stock the freezer and have a day out.

As for the troubles nothing what so ever to do with the EU. In fact my sister who moved back with them admitted that they are worried as the UK via EU have been pumping money into ROI for years.

P.s I voted out and it is nothing to do with a kick anywhere.

I was vote in well forever until I started to think with my head no my heart. A friend asked me a couple of days before if the vote was to join how would you vote? Turkey in talks, Greece in bits do i honestly want their economy to affect ours?

No! Also my vote was nothing to do with immigration. Instead it is about putting the Great back into Britain. Talking control and being able to hold the people who make decisions accountable.

The NI / ROI issue is a lot more than just physical barriers. So sad that in 2016 people can do horrible things to each other in the name of religion. But then again it has gone further than that now and is ingrained in the way of life.

I will never know part of my family simply because I do not think Mary is the best thing since sliced bread. The EU had control over lots of things but I much as I would like to be able to blame them for "everything " ( it would be nice and easy ) the Irish issue is not their fault.

hildosaver

BJV wrote: »

Tourism? Well my parents are Irish. One northern catholic and one Northern Protestant. They left during the "troubles " to come over here and went back to ROI 15 years ago.

They only went back to NI to do the shopping. Honestly they take a day a month and go up stock the freezer and have a day out.

As for the troubles nothing what so ever to do with the EU. In fact my sister who moved back with them admitted that they are worried as the UK via EU have been pumping money into ROI for years.

P.s I voted out and it is nothing to do with a kick anywhere.

I was vote in well forever until I started to think with my head no my heart. A friend asked me a couple of days before if the vote was to join how would you vote? Turkey in talks, Greece in bits do i honestly want their economy to affect ours?

No! Also my vote was nothing to do with immigration. Instead it is about putting the Great back into Britain. Talking control and being able to hold the people who make decisions accountable.

I never said at any point that the Troubles was anything to do with the EU - that was CLAPTON either not reading what I said properly or just ignoring what I said completely. I said that a return to political instablity is a possible result of BREXIT and that a hard border between NI and ROI is very bad news for NI (and also ROI for that matter).

Tourism has been growing steadily for the past decade.