Bullying from Boss - Untrue Allegations Made Against Me

ohreally

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

Now the language I was claimed to have used was not calling him a name directly it was not "you are a <two words> but was apparently "Don't be a <two words>" I don't know if that makes it a slightly lesser offence or not but that is one thing I am hoping will be the case/u].

I was under the impression you didn't do it so why are you hoping for a "lesser offense"?

Did you use inappropriate language or not?

NeedSomHelp

Of course I didn't do it, I'm simply saying that, at first I thought I was accused of saying he was a <two words> But now it appears I am accused of saying he was acting like a <two words> I'm just wondering if the second one could be deemed as less offensive?

I didn't do it, but of course it's my word against his and he's already been basically saying if I am denying what he claims I said, I am literally destroying trust in the relationship which means it must be ceased.

Samsonite1

Based on what is presented, there is a strong case to go for this guy via HR. You will have to fully articulate the wrongs he has committed and the stress caused to you.

You should also look for another job as an insurance policy or move within the company. I have been in similar situations although more tame than yours, but having found a new job - I let HR know the full story and I found out that they sacked my manager based on my detailed diatribe. In fact I have done this 4 or 5 times in my career with manager sackings in every case, so unfortunately the power of leaving and telling the truth on the way out seems to work...

vegasvisitor

It probably won't end well, but have you not considered going down the grievance route? At least you will have said your bit. Ask for a move as an outcome and see what happens. It might take a long time though.

Ozzuk

I'd be recording conversations with him via my phone, it may not be legal but if you can prove he's lying and play it to his boss they could sweep it under the carpet rather than discipline either of you.

Underhand yes, but I think you're in a horrible situation already and it doesn't look sustainable.

Undervalued

Ozzuk wrote: »

I'd be recording conversations with him via my phone, it may not be legal but if you can prove he's lying and play it to his boss they could sweep it under the carpet rather than discipline either of you.

Underhand yes, but I think you're in a horrible situation already and it doesn't look sustainable.

It is legal to covertly record a conversation of which you are part. It would only be illegal (i.e a criminal offence) to record when you are not present (i.e. bugging).

That said, getting caught doing it would almost certainly be gross misconduct in itself.

Despite it being legal, it may still be unlawful (i.e a civil wrong for which damages may be awarded), to publish the recording to a third party.

Obviously if the recording provided evidence of a crime it could be used as evidence. Recordings of this type, or at least transcripts from them, have sometimes been allowed as evidence at an employment tribunal but that is a matter for the judge to rule on depending on the facts of the case. Even if not admitted as evidence, the presence of such a recording can sometimes concentrate the employer mind about telling the truth due to the risk of being guilty of perjury which is a very serious criminal offence.

Malthusian

Samsonite1 wrote: »

In fact I have done this 4 or 5 times in my career with manager sackings in every case, so unfortunately the power of leaving and telling the truth on the way out seems to work...

Blimey, now I know why they call you Samsonite. I hope you have better luck with managers in the future.

NeedSomHelp wrote:

Reading through the mails I was sent again, it's noticeable that the one from my boss outlined

EITHER
"What I said you stated was an exact transcription of our meeting."
OR
"You deny this was the case which is a breach of trust which could damage the employment relationship beyond repair."

Essentially both are forms of gross misconduct.

If it was me I would say "I did not at any point say <what he is claiming you said>, and I do not consider it a breach of trust to tell the truth." Who's this transcription being sent to? Stop worrying about the severity of the offence, you didn't say it and that's the end of it. He may still have the power to sack you but there's no reason to give him any ammunition.

Stick to your guns. At the moment it may be your word against his, but if he's a liar he will probably catch himself out eventually.

Samsonite1

Malthusian wrote: »

Blimey, now I know why they call you Samsonite. I hope you have better luck with managers in the future.

Thankfully I have settled at a much better place for a few years now and have no issues at all! Previously it was a case of taking jobs that were urgent due to people leaving, so walking into issues - at least in each case I left the company in a better state for the teams I left behind.

For the OP: Try and make sure you keep copies of every message/email that is related - maybe your boss is careful, but anything that helps your case is good evidence. You would certainly want to build up evidence in case they did sack you as you certainly have grounds to sue them for wrongful dismissal it would seem. But that would be very difficult without any evidence to support you.

NeedSomHelp

Today just before I walked out the door I was given formal notice of proceedings against me by the HR department and invited to an investigation meeting

It consists of three allegations

a) Poor Communications standard with my boss
b) Use of Abuse and/or Offensive language.
c) Use of Social media at work.

The meeting will take place on Friday, and chairing the investigation will be my boss and someone from the HR Department and they have told me under no uncertain terms the outcome could be anything up to dismissal.

Few points
1) Is it fair that my boss is chairing this investigation, based on the fact he has a conflict of interests in this debate because he is the one alleging the foul language and is basically investigating what happened between me and himself - which to me is akin to being a judge and prosecution at the same time.

2) The overall issues with communication are of a result of what I feel is unfair treatment from my boss, I agree me and my boss have had poor communications for several months, but that is related to the way that he has been treating me (unfairly, bullying) rather than me communicating bad to him because I was being horrible.

3) With a grievance about to be logged later this week by me, which feeds into the communication difficulties and the reasons behind them, is it right that the disciplinary hearing should be held before this grievance situation is worked out?

Considering my relationship with my boss is at the heart of these allegations and I am claiming bullying, surely that should be investigated because that has a large effect on why we are having this situation in the first place.

sangie595

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

Today just before I walked out the door I was given formal notice of proceedings against me by the HR department and invited to an investigation meeting

It consists of three allegations

a) Poor Communications standard with my boss
b) Use of Abuse and/or Offensive language.
c) Use of Social media at work.

The meeting will take place on Friday, and chairing the investigation will be my boss and someone from the HR Department and they have told me under no uncertain terms the outcome could be anything up to dismissal.

Few points
1) Is it fair that my boss is chairing this investigation, based on the fact he has a conflict of interests in this debate because he is the one alleging the foul language and is basically investigating what happened between me and himself - which to me is akin to being a judge and prosecution at the same time.

2) The overall issues with communication are of a result of what I feel is unfair treatment from my boss, I agree me and my boss have had poor communications for several months, but that is related to the way that he has been treating me (unfairly, bullying) rather than me communicating bad to him because I was being horrible.

3) With a grievance about to be logged later this week by me, which feeds into the communication difficulties and the reasons behind them, is it right that the disciplinary hearing should be held before this grievance situation is worked out?

Considering my relationship with my boss is at the heart of these allegations and I am claiming bullying, surely that should be investigated because that has a large effect on why we are having this situation in the first place.

It's unusual for a manager involved to lead the investigation, but it isn't, in itself, unlawful. He wouldn't be in a disciplinary panel, and that is where a decision is made. He is, in fact, entitled to be the prosecution. The judge will be whoever is on the disciplinary panel. That isn't the same things as an investigation.

You haven't lodged a grievance, so yes, they can in either case hear a disciplinary before a grievance. But you have missed a boat here. Everybody and their best friend lodges a grievance after being notified of a potential or real disciplinary. A grievance at this point carries little weight.

It seems this isn't the first time you have complained about your boss. And they found against you last time. I wouldn't expect a very different outcome here. Regardless of your arguments, your boss has identified real issues that he can evidence about your work. It isn't bullying to manage poor performance. And you were using your phone. So it isn't a stretch for the employer to decide the manager is telling the truth about the conversation too.

You need to find a new job, fast. Sorry, but this isn't going to end happily.