Bullying from Boss - Untrue Allegations Made Against Me

sangie595

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

Unions are not recognized in our place of work

They do not allow any person other than colleagues to be representation of employees at any meetings, disciplinary hearings, grievance hearings etc, which is useful for the company since in general most staff are scared to speak up for their colleagues in fear of recrimination further down the line. ,

Much as it is too late to tell you this (for this time) - union representatives cannot be banned by an employer. They don't have to recognise a union to allow you representation. And they DO allow a union rep at meetings, because if they didn't that would be case won - it is illegal to deny union representatives to right to represent their members.

ohreally

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

Unions are not recognized in our place of work

They do not allow any person other than colleagues to be representation of employees at any meetings, disciplinary hearings, grievance hearings etc, which is useful for the company since in general most staff are scared to speak up for their colleagues in fear of recrimination further down the line. ,

Recognition isn't required. You have a statutory right to be accompanied by a trade union official ERA 10 3 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/26/section/10

If enough join a union the company may have no choice but to recognise the trade union.

sangie595

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

That is my thinking by giving no comment to my boss, let it go to a HR investigation rise a grievance against him which most likely will need to be investigated before the disciplinary if there is one can proceed and look for other thing sin the meantime.

I just don't want to give him any ammunition to hit me with. The question he asked me which was loaded seemed to be an attempt to speed the process up.

Any other tips on dragging it out?

A disciplinary may already be in the pipeline, in which case the employer would be perfectly entitled to refuse to deal with a grievance until after the outcome of a disciplinary.

Sometime soon you are going to get the suggestion of dragging it out by going off sick. This may or may not be an option for you (depends on your sick pay); and it may or may not have the effect of dragging it out. But it will also leave you with a reference that includes a lot of sick leave, which many employers won't employ as a result of. If you think about this option, take that into account - you may be making matters worse for yourself.

If you are thinking of going down the grievance route, however, I would advise suggesting the moving to another team again as an acceptable outcome. What may not have been considered before may be this time.

NeedSomHelp

The company hand book says that representation is limited to a fellow employee, previously it used to allow a friend as well, I know one employee who challenged this, who was allowed another manager from another department to be used as witness but they wouldn't offer anything more and that person obviously isn't exactly netural since they want to hand pick them.

Perhaps they may not allow the grievance to be heard before disciplinary, but the grievance relates to the bullying by the boss and this is a further example of it,, so there is a strong connection there between the two which gives the boss motives of sort for his behavior.

The thing is that the offer from the boss of admitting to it and forgetting about it someone told be might be a genuine one, however i'm 99% it's a trap to get a confession out of me in order to make it a clear cut case of gross misconduct and save a disciplinary process that coupled with a grievance might become a little drawn out on with neither side prepared to give any ground.

The thing that it makes me feel though is that I did nothing wrong, but even if I did would I be any worse off? It just feels almost like a boss can say what he likes about me and regardless of whether I did it or not, I'm treated the same which isn't very fair because he said so.

Our sick days are pro rata'd and I already missed 11 days this year due to stress which was in large part caused by my boss and the death of a family member, so calling in sick isn't really an option.

Gavin83

I would never recommend admitting to something you haven't done, especially something such as swearing at a manager which will likely result in instant dismissal. You can't then deny it once you admit to it! I'm not really sure why you haven't denied it already, your just making yourself look guilty. My first response would have been to totally deny it all.

I think your hands are marked anyway and you'd be better off looking for another job but in your position I'd be raising a grievance against your manager. I wouldn't be giving them a 'him or me' decision as others have suggested as your likely not come off too well but at least if it's on record he'll find it hard to do in the future.

NeedSomHelp

After the meeting where I was supposed to have swore at him, I instantly asked to talk with his boss as soon as she was back in the office, by which point I believe she already spoke to him. I spoke to his boss and she asked me if I swore and I denied it straight away.

The only reason I didn't flat out deny it to him was he asked me to agree I swore or agree I am accusing him of lying and therefore admit I have broke the relationship down and committed a fundamental breach of trust to the employment relationship.

The reason I offered no real comment in the email thread with him was it was one of intimidation and almost a threat and I really want to bring that to the attention of HR etc since it's unacceptable and appeared to be an attempt to intimidate me.

Do you suggest I raise a grievance about general behavior over the past few months and include everything in there or just this matter? I get the feeling that while they cannot prove I said it, they have already made their mind up that I have, and that I am being dishonest by covering it up, even though there is nothing to cover up.

My boss has already spouted stuff saying if I don't agree that I said it the burden of trust has been broken and they cannot work together any forward, although maybe I could use that in an attempt to try and win my wish for redeployment or even possibly some mutual settlement to terminate employment?

The later I'm not that against as long as it involves a negotiated reference and say at least the rest of this month and next months pay and any holidays owed and the bonus that is due at the end of this month? How would I go about raising that? It would give me enough cash to keep going for 3 months before finding another job.

Undervalued

NeedSomHelp wrote: »

The company hand book says that representation is limited to a fellow employee, previously it used to allow a friend as well, I know one employee who challenged this, who was allowed another manager from another department to be used as witness but they wouldn't offer anything more and that person obviously isn't exactly netural since they want to hand pick them.

As others have said, the company cannot refuse representation by an accredited trades union representative regardless of what their handbook says.

Technically, if you happen to know anybody who is an accredited union rep, they could represent you. You do not have to be a member of the union nor does the rep have to acting on behalf of the union. All that matters is that they are an accredited person!

Certain specialist firms of employment solicitors can supply such a person for a fee although this does not come cheap.

Detroit

tacpot12 wrote: »

I think you need to go on the offensive. Total War!

I think you need to formally raise a grievance with HR, explain that you are being bullied and that your manager has lied to his boss. I think you need to kick off with the your bosses boss - you need them to do something about it, and if they won't, raise a grievance against them.

The thing is, you don't know how many other people may have complained about this person previously, your complaint may be the one that causes HR to realise that there is a real problem, or the first that starts the process.

You shouldn't try to work with your boss on this, only their dismissal is acceptable now; it is gross misconduct to lie about an employee as they have done. They need to loose their job over it.

I wouldn't reply to your bosses email, at least not by email! An email exchange will only dig a hole you don't want to be in. I would ask for a meeting with your boss' boss, explain that your boss HAS lied to them about you, and only their dismissal for gross misconduct is acceptable to you now. They will say it is one person's word against another. But if they don't take your word on this, then you are happy to be lied to on a matter of personnel management by your boss, which is not acceptable to you, so raise a grievance against them as well. if they won't meet with you without HR present, so be it. But you can take the same approach with HR in the room; your boss lied about you, and !!!!!! are they going to about it.

With this approach, you have a chance your boss' boss will cover the situation, or your boss will be scared about losing their job that they withdraw their allegation that you lied (and back off on the bullying), or that your boss will be sacked and not you.

Don't engage in any discussion on your performance until your grievance with your boss is resolved. Flat-out refuse to discuss your performance with a liar (or someone who takes the word of a liar).

Remember Total War! Anything else just admits to the fact you are happy to be walked over by bad managers.

Good luck - you'll need it, if you get asked to leave, you can resign and explain confidently at interview, that when they wouldn't sort the issue out you walked out.

If you do walk out, don't give any notice, explain to your boss that you are leaving and send a letter to HR alleging breech of contract, you have to stick to the narrative that your boss was guilty of gross misconduct and they did nothing about it. Best wait till payday to walk out though. :-) Your boss will be mortified that they have to tell HR you have walked out!

You did ask for advice, sorry if the above seems extreme, but I have seen enough of this to think that attack is the only form of defence.

I think there is almost no chance this approach will work. when it comes to one word against the other, your boss's boss is far more likely to accept the word of a person they regard highly enough to keep in a position of authority than that of a member of staff.
Best case scenario, they would investigate but be unable to draw conclusions given the lack of evidence on either side.
A demand for your boss's dismissal for gross misconduct would quite frankly, make you appear ridiculous, and you'd lose the confidence of the senior boss as well as your own. Please don't do this!
Far better to approach this calmly and professionally. Talk to the senior boss by all means, and tell him your boss lied. If your boss has had previous similar complaints made about them, you may be taken seriously.
However do be aware it's unlikely you will come out well from this and your best option may be to seek other work.

NeedSomHelp

I doubt it, my boss and his boss are close friends, that's how he got the job and she is leaving soon so it's no water off her back to fire me since it won't affect her one iota since she's riding off into the sunset in a couple of weeks.

I heard about another case with another manager a couple of years ago where something happened and they confessed to doing it when they did not, on the basis that the company agreed that the offence of dishonesty would be worse than the language used, with the former leading to a dismissal and the later leading to a final warning, but I'm not going to take that option myself.

Now the language I was claimed to have used was not calling him a name directly it was not "you are a <two words> but was apparently "Don't be a <two words>" I don't know if that makes it a slightly lesser offence or not but that is one thing I am hoping will be the case.

My boss has already stated that he views me calling him a liar as more serious than the offence himself, but as said before, that could easily be a trap into getting me ot admitting something I didn't do to get me out the door without too much fuss and the need for a long drawn out disciplinary hearing and investigation process and a grievance mixed with it.

Do you think it's worth bringing up a compromise agreement and/or redeployment?

NeedSomHelp

Reading through the mails I was sent again, it's noticeable that the one from my boss outlined

EITHER
"What I said you stated was an exact transcription of our meeting."
OR
"You deny this was the case which is a breach of trust which could damage the employment relationship beyond repair."

Essentially both are forms of gross misconduct.