M&S and FIRA investigation

lincroft1710

Lily0837 wrote: »

At the very least, I would have thought a goodwill gesture of gift vouchers was in order.

I just can't let this go.

I'm just astounded that they haven't offered my anything as recompense.

I'm so angry about it.

If M&S view the discolouring as expected or normal, there is no reason for them to offer a goodwill gesture. The only recourse you have is to commission at your expense, an independent report on the state of the furniture.

But if the report says no inherent fault, discolouration to be expected, you will have wasted your money.

If there is an inherent fault, you can send a copy of the report to M&S and ask for an appropriate recompense plus a refund of the cost of the report. But bear in mind your furniture is 5 years old and any recompense will reflect this.

Try and put any emotion to one side and approach this from a detached and logical stance, think about it for a day or two

unholyangel

Lily0837 wrote: »

How do you explain the discolouration of the bits that aren't exposed to sunlight - I've already mentioned this several times! The edging used on the bedside cabinets are also still white and the sides are yellowing, so it's not even an all over effect.

Also, just to make it clear - I noticed this happening quite some time ago but it's very slowly got worse and worse until last year I just couldn't ignore it any longer. At that point I had still owned the furniture well under 5 years. You are given 6 years under trading standards to report any defects. Your furniture is expected to be in good order for at least that long.

I agree that I'll be lucky to get even a partial refund. I'm glad that I've shared this and had some really good advice and comments so far from this thread - there are lots of different points of view and I appreciate all of them - but please don't tell me I'm being unreasonable!!!

Btw, the 6 years is the statute of limitations set by the limitations act and prescriptions & limitations (scotland) act. Its the period in which you can take legal action rather than an indication of how long products should last. In england the period is 6 years from purchase. In scotland its 5 years from discovery of the breach.


If the same yellowing has happened evenly all over, I would say this is likely a problem with the oils used rather than something caused by sunlight.

Kind of similar to the issues dulux were having with their brilliant white gloss due to the oil base of the paint. Plastics can also experience the same problem I believe as again, it comes down to the oil rather than sunlight.

Might be worth looking into.

Lily0837

lincroft1710 wrote: »

If M&S view the discolouring as expected or normal, there is no reason for them to offer a goodwill gesture. The only recourse you have is to commission at your expense, an independent report on the state of the furniture.

But if the report says no inherent fault, discolouration to be expected, you will have wasted your money.

If there is an inherent fault, you can send a copy of the report to M&S and ask for an appropriate recompense plus a refund of the cost of the report. But bear in mind your furniture is 5 years old and any recompense will reflect this.

Try and put any emotion to one side and approach this from a detached and logical stance, think about it for a day or two

More good advice which I am going to take - you are totally right of course. I guess I can't quite get my head round that the culture of M&S has changed - at least I know not every company has become more interested in profits than their reputation! Thanks.

Lily0837

unholyangel wrote: »

Btw, the 6 years is the statute of limitations set by the limitations act and prescriptions & limitations (scotland) act. Its the period in which you can take legal action rather than an indication of how long products should last. In england the period is 6 years from purchase. In scotland its 5 years from discovery of the breach.


If the same yellowing has happened evenly all over, I would say this is likely a problem with the oils used rather than something caused by sunlight.

Kind of similar to the issues dulux were having with their brilliant white gloss due to the oil base of the paint. Plastics can also experience the same problem I believe as again, it comes down to the oil rather than sunlight.

Might be worth looking into.

Aah - thanks for putting me right on that - I obviously misconstrued what trading standards told me. All I know about Dulux is I've heard professional decorators won't touch it - they use Johnston's. You don't work for Dulux do you?!!!

The same yellowing hasn't happened all over and I think I might just have realised the reason. I was told by a specialist paint company that it's the lacquer that's at fault - not the paint. If not enough white pigment is put into the lacquer when the final coat is put on then the lacquer can turn yellow. But I hadn't clicked until now why the edges aren't fading. Of course! The edging material was probably sprayed seperately (using the correct pigment ratio) and put on afterwards. Now that scenario seems logical to me. It also completely throws the sunlight reason out of the window because the sunlight would have faded the edges as well. Does that make sense to you? Maybe I've been staring at the proof all along!

meer53

The edging is probably completely different material to the doors. How did the paint company know the lacquer is at fault ?

Lily0837

meer53 wrote: »

The edging is probably completely different material to the doors. How did the paint company know the lacquer is at fault ?

I agree the edging would be different material but the paint covering it is the same. I got the impression the guy at the paint company had a lot of experience and they obviously have to know about the products they make and how they should be used. He did tell me that if I were to scrape some lacquer off, the paint underneath would still be brilliant white, proving it's the lacquer that's turned yellow. I didn't do it because what he told me seemed very plausible so I didn't put it to the test. The FIRA report stated 'no manufacturing fault' but an improper mix of paint is surely a fault by someone and I argued (before speaking to the paint company) that the painting is part of the manufacturing process. They dismissed this point - just like every other point I made about poor quality, cosmetic defect etc.

unholyangel

Lily0837 wrote: »

Aah - thanks for putting me right on that - I obviously misconstrued what trading standards told me. All I know about Dulux is I've heard professional decorators won't touch it - they use Johnston's. You don't work for Dulux do you?!!!

The same yellowing hasn't happened all over and I think I might just have realised the reason. I was told by a specialist paint company that it's the lacquer that's at fault - not the paint. If not enough white pigment is put into the lacquer when the final coat is put on then the lacquer can turn yellow. But I hadn't clicked until now why the edges aren't fading. Of course! The edging material was probably sprayed seperately (using the correct pigment ratio) and put on afterwards. Now that scenario seems logical to me. It also completely throws the sunlight reason out of the window because the sunlight would have faded the edges as well. Does that make sense to you? Maybe I've been staring at the proof all along!

No I don't work for dulux I've been warned off them by a family member who was a professional painter & decorator back in a time where if you didn't do a job right, you had to strip it down and start against from scratch from your own pocket - good incentive to do it right the first time!

I was just saying that the reason some paints go yellow is because of the oil base in them - same with plastics yellowing and that usually it has !!!!!! all to do with the sun (as stated by FIRA). The sun tends to bleach things, not make them yellow.

wealdroam

Lily0837 wrote: »

Also, just to make it clear - I noticed this happening quite some time ago but it's very slowly got worse and worse until last year I just couldn't ignore it any longer. At that point I had still owned the furniture well under 5 years. You are given 6 years under trading standards to report any defects. Your furniture is expected to be in good order for at least that long.

Unholyangel has responded well to this post, but I'd just like to comment again on your last sentence here if I may?

There is definitely no expectation, by Trading Standards or the legislation, that all goods should last at least six years.

Yes, you do have up to six years to seek a remedy from the seller, but one needs to take the price paid (and other things) into account when determining how long a particular item should last.

forgotmyname

The issue is they have now banned any chemical that worked, all we have left are inferior alternatives.

I bet the paint company that you contacted sell white gloss that will yellow over time. Ive seen a ton of complaints on that subject.

You need cheap white gloss units from China and other countries that have no interest in health risks to their workers. Even if the original tests were unfounded.

Is there a decent white gloss that doesnt yellow?

unholyangel

forgotmyname wrote: »

The issue is they have now banned any chemical that worked, all we have left are inferior alternatives.

I bet the paint company that you contacted sell white gloss that will yellow over time. Ive seen a ton of complaints on that subject.

You need cheap white gloss units from China and other countries that have no interest in health risks to their workers. Even if the original tests were unfounded.

Is there a decent white gloss that doesnt yellow?

As I've been saying, its only certain paints that are prone to it because of the oils - any water based paint will be fine (well unless you're a smoker maybe!).