M&S and FIRA investigation

Lily0837

unholyangel wrote: »

Surprised by some of the replies - especially the one saying OP will need a report saying its not due to sunlight etc. Just because it has reacted to something doesn't necessarily mean the goods conform to contract.

I mean cars used to discolour in the sun, but nowadays you wouldn't expect it to happen and I'd bet most wouldn't be happy if their car started to discolour after a few years.

However I think ultimately its going to come down to how much OP paid.

This post has given me food for thought. That's a great point about cars - and very true - and cars are lacquered just like the furniture is. I was a bit dim earlier and didn't realise SoGA referred to the sale of goods act - doh!!

Your point in relation to price paid versus quality has hit the nail on the head. This range was definately marketed as high quality and certainly wasn't cheap. Linking that together with poor appearance and finish, it does seem as though the SoGA may offer a glimmer of hope.

I know Martin Lewis will never read this but just for once I wish I could ask him what his opinion is!

Keep_pedalling

The process for painting cars is very different to that for internal furnature. Kitchen cabinets don't tend to be painted they use a thermal foil made of plastic. Anything painted or died placed in a south facing bedroom are going to see changes, which is why the curtains in our main bedroom are severely faded and those of a similar age in the north facing spare room have hardly changed.

The best option would be to strip back the paint and lacquer and repainted them.

Lily0837

meer53 wrote: »

I don't think that furniture made in Italy and sold by M & S will guarantee top quality. It's still mass produced.

You are certainly right there! I think the point that unholyangel made was that the SoGA says the finish should be of satisfactory quality relating to the price you paid for it - and I believe the marketing was misleading on this range. The Autograph Range, made in Italy and the high price tag all indicated high quality to me. The trouble is with mass production is that there's no quality control!

Just referring back to a previous note on plastics discolouring - my white acrylic bath has never faded.
Also - aren't fridges spray painted? Mine has never faded.
Just making the point that not all finishes degrade over time!

lincroft1710

Lily, what are you hoping M&S will actually do?

Lily0837

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Lily, what are you hoping M&S will actually do?

I want them to give me my money back and take the wardrobes away, claim against the company responsible for lacquering the furniture incorrectly and tell me the issue with the lacquer has been resolved. That's what I want! But of course, I'm living in cloud cuckoo land. At the very least, I would have thought a goodwill gesture of gift vouchers was in order. The FIRA report stating sunlight as the cause is just a convenient excuse. There is the same yellowing on the bits that have never been in the sun. I don't make a fuss over nothing and spend regularly in their stores. I have been a huge fan of M&S over the years. I feel badly let down by them and wonder when their culture of customer happiness became irrelevant!
Recently I became ill and thought it was likely some ham from Tesco - the doctor recommended sending it back for testing which was done. The results were negative. There was nothing wrong with it. In spite of that Tesco sent me goodwill vouchers for £15 just to say sorry for my trouble of having to return it etc. What a difference between that service and M&S. Although with M&S we are talking about £1000 so £15 would nowhere near cut it - but shouldn't my grievance at least be acknowledged properly?
As it is, I am finding I just can't let this go. If the furniture was still looking good then I would not have anything to grumble about - but the fact is they look awful. I've shown quite a few people who all agree and obviously the FIRA report agrees anyway about the colour of the lacquer. I'm just astounded that they haven't offered my anything as recompense. Apart from which I was treated badly during the dialogue we had (people not returning calls, telling me incorrect facts etc). I'm so angry about it. This is not the company it was. and I know I'm not the first to be disgruntled about their furniture quality. A while ago there was a fb thread started on it. But nothing is ever done for these people. Frustrating!

I wish I could just get the status of this issue raised by someone with some clout. If I was Richard Branson I wouldn't be expected to put up with it. M&S would be falling over themselves to put it right. I tried to get through to the CEO Marc Bolland - but no chance. Obviously he's gone now. We now have 'Mrs M&S' - the line from the new CEO - don't think that's going down very well!!

I'm reluctant to spend money on it because it's obvious M&S will say anything to get out of paying a penny back to me. Which is why I wish I could find others Any ideas?

On a plus note I'm really heartened by the amount of response - lovely of people to take the time to respond.

Keep_pedalling

You have had 5 years use out of the furnature, it is totally unreasonable to expect a full refund. The best you can expect is a partial and I think you will be lucky to get that.

Paint on wood will always change when exposed to sunlight it is just a fact of life.

naedanger

Lily0837 wrote: »

Any ideas?

Take your complaint to the credit card company. It will cost you nothing(*) and you can ultimately take the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at no cost if the credit card company do not resolve it to your satisfaction.

Set out your arguments to the credit card company.

Firstly you would expect the appearance and finish of the bedroom furniture costing £x to last well beyond 6 years of normal usage.

Secondly you did not misuse the item [and dispute the damage was caused by sunlight if you have any evidence to counter this point e.g. evidence of discoloration in areas not receiving sunlight etc)].

Thirdly, even if you accept the discoloration was due to sunlight, then you should have been warned that the item was susceptible to discoloration if exposed to sunlight. (State all your reasons to not expect the discoloration e.g. statement from paint manufacturer, kitchen retailers, your own experience etc).

Then wait to see how the credit card company respond. They may ask for another report, in which case you will need to decide whether to get it. However even if you decide not to get a report you can still pursue your complaint, ultimately to the FOS. You could for example argue you believe a report is unnecessary (e.g. because even accepting the first report's finding, that sunlight caused the damage, you dispute that absolves the retailer as you were not warned this would happen).

Of course you may well still not win. But it is another option for trying to get redress.

---

(*) Although you can complain at no cost, you may be able to improve the chances of winning by getting another report, which could involve some cost.

Lily0837

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

You have had 5 years use out of the furnature, it is totally unreasonable to expect a full refund. The best you can expect is a partial and I think you will be lucky to get that.

Paint on wood will always change when exposed to sunlight it is just a fact of life.

How do you explain the discolouration of the bits that aren't exposed to sunlight - I've already mentioned this several times! The edging used on the bedside cabinets are also still white and the sides are yellowing, so it's not even an all over effect.

Also, just to make it clear - I noticed this happening quite some time ago but it's very slowly got worse and worse until last year I just couldn't ignore it any longer. At that point I had still owned the furniture well under 5 years. You are given 6 years under trading standards to report any defects. Your furniture is expected to be in good order for at least that long.

I agree that I'll be lucky to get even a partial refund. I'm glad that I've shared this and had some really good advice and comments so far from this thread - there are lots of different points of view and I appreciate all of them - but please don't tell me I'm being unreasonable!!!

Lily0837

naedanger wrote: »

Take your complaint to the credit card company. It will cost you nothing(*) and you can ultimately take the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at no cost if the credit card company do not resolve it to your satisfaction.

Set out your arguments to the credit card company.

Firstly you would expect the appearance and finish of the bedroom furniture costing £x to last well beyond 6 years of normal usage.

Secondly you did not misuse the item [and dispute the damage was caused by sunlight if you have any evidence to counter this point e.g. evidence of discoloration in areas not receiving sunlight etc)].

Thirdly, even if you accept the discoloration was due to sunlight, then you should have been warned that the item was susceptible to discoloration if exposed to sunlight. (State all your reasons to not expect the discoloration e.g. statement from paint manufacturer, kitchen retailers, your own experience etc).

Then wait to see how the credit card company respond. They may ask for another report, in which case you will need to decide whether to get it. However even if you decide not to get a report you can still pursue your complaint, ultimately to the FOS. You could for example argue you believe a report is unnecessary (e.g. because even accepting the first report's finding, that sunlight caused the damage, you dispute that absolves the retailer as you were not warned this would happen).

Of course you may well still not win. But it is another option for trying to get redress.

---

(*) Although you can complain at no cost, you may be able to improve the chances of winning by getting another report, which could involve some cost.

Thank you once again - good sensible advice which I am going to persue again. I maybe gave up too easily with the credit card company before!

naedanger

Lily0837 wrote: »

Thank you once again - good sensible advice which I am going to persue again. I maybe gave up too easily with the credit card company before!

Once you feel the credit card company are not being helpful (e.g. by discounting a valid argument, or trying to fob you off by saying you need to speak to the retailer etc) send them a formal complaint about their actions. Ask for a copy of their complaint procedure and follow it to the end (i.e. ultimately to FOS).