M&S and FIRA investigation

Lily0837

I have a problem with M&S relating to RENZO bedroom furniture bought in 2011. Basically, the white gloss lacquer has (very slowly) degraded to a yellow hue and M&S are refusing a refund. I know from trading standards that you have 6 years to make a claim for furniture which is not of satisfactory quality so I am well within that limit. The FIRA report agrees the paint has degraded and has put it down to sunlight - which is ludicrous! Would anyone buy white gloss furniture if they knew within a few years it would turn yellow?!! I know from speaking to a specialist paint company and various kitchen companies that sell white gloss units that it should never change colour - so I know I am right on this issue. I was referred to the Furniture Ombudsman who were no help at all because they just read the FIRA report to make their decision!!

I would like to find others who have a problem with FIRA and the absurd excuses they use to get the companies that use their service off the hook. I think it's about time FIRA and the Furniture Ombudsman were fully investigated because neither are serving the consumer and neither appear to be independant.

I thought I could use twitter to complain and spread the word but as a newbie and only having 4 followers I don't think this will work. Do any of you have any advice on how to get the word around on twitter and would anyone be willing to follow me and retweet? My username is @Lily08454. I have posted a strongly worded warning on twitter but don't think anyone is seeing it.

Your advice and comments would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

Fosterdog

Unfortunately as much as you know you are right I know you are wrong. Depending on the type of finish it is quite common for white to discolour. There are a number of things that can cause the discolouration, sunlight being one, smoking being another, heat and grease in a kitchen, heat from any other source (including a greenhouse effect from sunlight through a window).

Here is a link to explain it for you, it is based on discolouration in hardwood floors but the same will apply to other surfaces and finishes.

http://napervillehardwood.com/blog/sunlight-and-fading-hardwood-floors/

Another link to show the yellowing effect on plastics in vintage gaming consoles
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189

Sun damage on a leather sofa
http://www.fibrenew.com/blog/how-to-prevent-sun-damage-to-leather-furniture-upholstery-faded-dried-leather/

If you do some proper research you will find a lot more, the above three took me less than two minutes to find on google

naedanger

Lily0837 wrote: »

I have a problem with M&S relating to RENZO bedroom furniture bought in 2011. Basically, the white gloss lacquer has (very slowly) degraded to a yellow hue and M&S are refusing a refund. I know from trading standards that you have 6 years to make a claim for furniture which is not of satisfactory quality so I am well within that limit. The FIRA report agrees the paint has degraded and has put it down to sunlight - which is ludicrous! Would anyone buy white gloss furniture if they knew within a few years it would turn yellow?!! I know from speaking to a specialist paint company and various kitchen companies that sell white gloss units that it should never change colour - so I know I am right on this issue. I was referred to the Furniture Ombudsman who were no help at all because they just read the FIRA report to make their decision!!

I would like to find others who have a problem with FIRA and the absurd excuses they use to get the companies that use their service off the hook. I think it's about time FIRA and the Furniture Ombudsman were fully investigated because neither are serving the consumer and neither appear to be independant.

I thought I could use twitter to complain and spread the word but as a newbie and only having 4 followers I don't think this will work. Do any of you have any advice on how to get the word around on twitter and would anyone be willing to follow me and retweet? My username is @Lily08454. I have posted a strongly worded warning on twitter but don't think anyone is seeing it.

Your advice and comments would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

This is probably not what you want to hear but in my view your approach is futile. Even if you have suffered an injustice at the hands of FIRA and the Furniture Ombudsman virtually no-one else will be interested.

My suggestion would be to get reports in writing from the specialist paint company and the various kitchen companies stating that the colour should never change unless the units had an inherent defect. Then take legal action against the M&S. This will involve some cost but if you win your case you should be able to recover court fees.

(Personally I think you will have an uphill struggle winning your case, especially if the item was situated in direct sunlight. So I would only pursue the case if the reports I obtained were very clear and convincing. Perhaps if M&S did not warn about the possibility of discoloration then you could try that angle, although it would still seem a weak case to me. If M&S fitted the furniture then I think you might have better grounds for complaint as you could then argue they should have advised you of potential problem with the furniture and its location.)

Zinger549

You have up to 6 years to make a claim. After 6 months it is up to you to prove the fault. You got a report saying what cause the discolouration. I assume M&S are saying that because the report says it was due to sunlight that it is not their fault. You could try and get another furniture repair company to have a look but they might just say the same thing.

If M&S won't budge you could try small claims court. You would need to prove that the discolouration was caused by a manufacturing fault. Not sunlight,heat,smoke ect.

Fosterdog

Personally I don't think that reports from paint companies and kitchen companies would be good enough. This is bedroom furniture and would probably been made from different materials and with a different finish to a kitchen.

If you can get the same report from a bedroom furniture company then there may be some scope to take it further but asking people from completely unrelated areas of furniture design and finish are meaningless.

I do agree with the kitchen company you spoke to that there are finishes out there that will fare better with exposure to sunlight (still not lasting forever but certainly hold their colour for longer) but I cannot even begin to take the paint company seriously, I have never seen or heard of a paint that would not discolour over time especially with sunlight exposure.

Lily0837

Thanks very much for your reply. I totally agree that various finishes and white plastic will discolour. But I have 2 kitchen companies and a specialist paint manufacturer that say lacquered white gloss for furniture does not discolour. The top coat lacquer itself protects the colour and is impermeable.I have also visible proof from a friend who has a white gloss kitchen about 20 years old which is still brilliant white! You have provided some links (thanks anyway!) which are not related to this particular finish. As you are sure I am wrong and have made the effort to be helpful maybe you could point me in the right direction for a link to disprove what my investigations have found. By the way, part of the furniture is in shade, there is no smoke in this house or heat near the furniture. Thank you for the advice to do some proper research - I'm amused that your proper research has thrown up nothing to do with white gloss lacquer!! (No offence intended!) I'll look forward to your response if you have the time. Cheers.

bris

Did M&S guarantee you the finish wouldn't fade in direct sunlight?


Direct sunlight will discolour anything that's not protected from it. Having to specialist kitchen companies and a paint manufacture does not help you because their process makes it sunlight safe, M&S clearly doesn't. Just because they are both white gloss does not make them made to equal standards.

naedanger

bris wrote: »

Having to specialist kitchen companies and a paint manufacture does not help you because their process makes it sunlight safe, M&S clearly doesn't. Just because they are both white gloss does not make them made to equal standards.

But might the fact that they are not of the same standard be the substance of the complaint? If it is agreed that the colour could have been made sunlight safe then could it not be argued that the M&S furniture was substandard if it was both (a) not sunlight safe and (b) not described as being unsuitable for locations exposed to direct sunlight?

Personally I think the op may have some chance of succeeding in a complaint if they can get reports saying furniture can be made sunlight safe (and ideally, should have been made sunlight safe taking account of the price paid.) That said I am not saying their chance of succeeding is necessarily that high.

To the op: Did you pay on credit card or using a finance agreement?

ThumbRemote

bris wrote: »

Did M&S guarantee you the finish wouldn't fade in direct sunlight?


Direct sunlight will discolour anything that's not protected from it. Having to specialist kitchen companies and a paint manufacture does not help you because their process makes it sunlight safe, M&S clearly doesn't. Just because they are both white gloss does not make them made to equal standards.

Why should a consumer need a specific guarantee that it won't fade in sunlight? It's bedroom furniture, unless you're a bat then bedrooms usually have windows.

The SoGA specifically stated that "the quality of goods includes ... fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied".

Surely if an item had to be kept out of direct sunlight then it's for the manufacturer to alert the consumer to this.

tomtontom

I would like to find others who have a problem with FIRA and the absurd excuses they use to get the companies that use their service off the hook. I think it's about time FIRA and the Furniture Ombudsman were fully investigated because neither are serving the consumer and neither appear to be independant.

I had a FIRA assessor visit me when I was in dispute with Tesco over a sofa. The assessor identified an inherent fault (a weakness in the frame) and his report reflected this. Tesco paid for the report and refunded me for the sofa.

They were certainly independent in my case.

Keep_pedalling

Does a bed that is a slightly different colour that it was when your bought it still not provide the same function that it did when it was first bought. If you think you have a right to a full refund after 5 years of use dream on.