Wheelchair bus case

lisyloo

CLAPTON wrote: »

well, maybe , maybe not
I'm reluctant to believe that there are truely over 9 million disabled people in the UK
being registered disable bring financial gain .
I've talked to many doctors about this and they all say that it is very difficult to distinguish between some-one genuinely suffering and one who isn't.

However it's quite easy to see if someone is in a wheelchair (they have to have one for a start).
This was for wheelchair users not the general disabled.
Do you really think people are going to go out and buy a wheelchair and fake a disability so they can get a taxi ONLY if there is another wheelchair already on the bus.

You seem to have extrapolated wheelchair user to all disabled and that's not what was proposed at all.

custardy

lisyloo wrote: »

Thus is the case of a bus company not forcing a buggy passenger to move for a wheelchair passenger - now going to the Supreme Court.

I have sympathy for disabled people, however if bus drivers aren't going to be allowed to you touch anyone (for fear of assault claims) let alone move babies then won't the police have to be called to get someone to move?
Doesn't this mean everyone is now waiting for the next bus whilst the first one waits for the police?
So whilst I have total sympathy this means everyone waits rather than just the wheelchair passenger waiting?

I do appreciate there is a point of principle here, just thinking through the practical consequences.

There was a thread on this back when it was news the first (?) time.
As I posted,here in Edinburgh is is par for the course that wheelchair trumps pushchair on the 'at arms length' council run bus service.
Petty much all sorted by convention and if needed passenger peer pressure.

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

However it's quite easy to see if someone is in a wheelchair (they have to have one for a start).
This was for wheelchair users not the general disabled.
Do you really think people are going to go out and buy a wheelchair and fake a disability so they can get a taxi ONLY if there is another wheelchair already on the bus.

You seem to have extrapolated wheelchair user to all disabled and that's not what was proposed at all.

is it legal to discrimination between a wheelchair user and some-one with a disability that prevent them using a bus even if not in a wheelchair.
(not the same as ALL disabled)

custardy

kathrynha wrote: »

I personally think it would be unfair to expect a parent and pushchair to get off the bus for another passenger. With only limited space on buses, they may have already had to wait for multiple buses for there to be space.


Buses are not designed appropriately in my opinion. In making space for wheelchairs and unfolded pushchairs they have removed the space to put folded pushchairs and other luggage.
Added to that the issue of nobody being willing to help with the holding a baby, whilst dealing with shopping and folding a pushchair issue, parents often can not sensibly attempt to fold a pushchair on a bus to make space for a wheelchair user.

Lothian's NEW interior design by Stuart Montgomery, on Flickr

Luggage rack,wheelchair & push chair space on the double.

Can't find a new image,however heres an older single decker with double spaces too

lisyloo

CLAPTON wrote: »

is it legal to discrimination between a wheelchair user and some-one with a disability that prevent them using a bus even if not in a wheelchair.
(not the same as ALL disabled)

There are disabled seats that are separate from the wheelchair area, so they are exclusive.
I'm not getting your point, but an ambulent disabled person wouldn't be stopped from boarding a bus because there was already a wheelchair or buggys in the wheelchair area.

I don't believe that providing taxis for exceptional cases where there are 2 wheelchairs would discriminate against anyone else because buggy users can fold and still travel and non-wheelchair users can sit in the seats so everyone else can still travel.

SingleSue

On our local buses, the wheelchair area is for wheelchairs and other disabled, the elderly, the pregnant and those with buggies, there are no seperate seats for the non wheelchair disabled.

As for the question regarding equality. I would love to be an equal to everyone else but of course, reasonable adjustments are needed for that and reasonable is what they should be rather than a completely different treatment that marks us out as being better than someone not in a wheelchair. That said, if the bus is full, then I would just have to wait my turn like any other person, being disabled does not give me the right to special treatment.

Also, my wheelchair folds and can store just as a buggy can, we have in fact done just that on a train before when the only space available for the chair was in a narrow space by the door where I was in the way of everyone...we just folded up the chair and my son helped me to the nearest seat and we put the folded up chair in the space in front of our knees (It was a squash but better than being in the way and being jostled)

Maybe my philosophy is different to other disabled public transport users but I prefer to go with the get on with it and deal with it as best we can way rather than complain, begger about and ultimately increase mine and everyone elses blood pressure whilst ruining a family day out.

lisyloo

SingleSue wrote: »

On our local buses, the wheelchair area is for wheelchairs and other disabled, the elderly, the pregnant and those with buggies, there are no seperate seats for the non wheelchair disabled.

I'm confused. The wheelchair area is an open space with no seats - for a wheelchair, buggy or if empty it often contains luggage.
By definition there are no seats in it.
Are you saying on your local buses the area for people with walking sticks, pregnant, carrying children etc. is an empty standing area?
There must be some confusion because on every other form of public transport they are given "priority" seating which others are meant to give up.

I agree with you about equality.
It's about equality of opportunity to travel/work not giving everyone precisely the same treatment.
People are either being really miserable or making genuine technical enquirers about the law. I'm not sure which but you have to be seriously miserable to begrudge a small adjustment to someone who cannot walk.

As regards wheelchair users moving, as you said your son helped you.
Every single wheelchair user I've seen on the bus was alone. One was extremely athletic but none could get out of the chair, so it's unfair to say they aren't getting on with it, just becuase hey don't have or want to be dependent on a carer. I'm suprised you attack their wish to be independent.
I have never ever seen a wheelchair user, disabled person, buggy user or indeed anyone trying to make a fuss and make life difficult for users.
Those pursuing legal action are trying to improve the lot of others.

vivatifosi

I don't understand why public transport has been so slow to make adjustments that have been made in public spaces such as shops, plus in houses, for years. Offices, shops, museums, libraries... all need ramps or lifts installed to ensure equality of access.

Why is it that new houses have had to be disabled friendly since about the 90s, but not new buses? Whole fleets have been replaced over that time, a missed opportunity.

lisyloo

The buses in London do have ramps and spaces.

What we also have is congestion for able and disabled alike.
I'm very lucky that I can cycle to work - and will do that right now, but disabled people don't have the same choices.

SingleSue

lisyloo wrote: »

I'm confused. The wheelchair area is an open space with no seats - for a wheelchair, buggy or if empty it often contains luggage.
By definition there are no seats in it.
Are you saying on your local buses the area for people with walking sticks, pregnant, carrying children etc. is an empty standing area?
There must be some confusion because on every other form of public transport they are given "priority" seating which others are meant to give up.

I agree with you about equality.
It's about equality of opportunity to travel/work not giving everyone precisely the same treatment.
People are either being really miserable or making genuine technical enquirers about the law. I'm not sure which but you have to be seriously miserable to begrudge a small adjustment to someone who cannot walk.

As regards wheelchair users moving, as you said your son helped you.
Every single wheelchair user I've seen on the bus was alone. One was extremely athletic but none could get out of the chair, so it's unfair to say they aren't getting on with it, just becuase hey don't have or want to be dependent on a carer. I'm suprised you attack their wish to be independent.
I have never ever seen a wheelchair user, disabled person, buggy user or indeed anyone trying to make a fuss and make life difficult for users.
Those pursuing legal action are trying to improve the lot of others.

A lot of our buses have wheelchair spaces which have fold up seats, so if you have a buggy you can sit with the child, if you have a wheelchair your carer can sit with you, if you have a disability but no wheelchair then you can fold the seat down and sit in the space etc. In other words, they are multi purpose.

Re folding up the chair, I am one of those unfortunate (or fortunate which ever way you look at it, especially when it comes to hills :rotfl:), that is unable to self propel so I cannot be on my own and use my wheelchair, I always have to have someone with me for trips which would need a bus or if there is a longer walk or I don't go.

I wasn't attacking their wish to be independent, god far from it as I value my own independece and ability to keep going as long as I can but was just saying that we have at times had to fold up the wheelchair to enable us to continue to travel. Yes it has been a struggle, it's not easy for me to transfer out and then back in again and it does cause me problems later on in the day if I have to do it multiple times but if that is what is the only thing on offer, then I make do and get on with it (albeit muttering under my breath about being treated like cattle or only good enough to be sharing a space with the luggage or bikes and then following that up with an email/phone call/letter to the company pointing out their lack of disability provision).

I probably didn't word my post very well and I apologise for that, it was a begger of a day getting eldest son picked up from university and I was beyond tired, in pain and generally in an absolutely foul mood.