Wheelchair bus case

lisyloo

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Again, I think that is a technically a criminal offence under specific legislation applying only to railways, plus the railways have their own dedicated police force to enforce the law (in addition to the separate matter of the contractual breach which is a civil matter between the passenger and the rail operator).

The case is about making change.
If the wheelchair passenger wins then the bus companies will have the legal mandate they need to make the relevant changes.

The hope would be that if signs say "buggy passengers must move" and the bus driver has the backing of the law/police then people will move voluntarily. That doesn't mean there will never be someone who won't dig their heels in but it would be reasonable to think it's less likely.

michaels

Are bus companies discriminating if they don't provide capacity for disabled passengers? Perhaps they should have a duty to provide such a service and if the economics of providing suitable buses does not make sense they should have to send out taxis where an unmet need arises?

SingleSue

Kim_kim wrote: »

If you are are the parent of a child in a buggy & you use public transport get a buggy that folds down easily.

The parent had a choice, they could have folded the buggy up.
The wheelchair user didn't have a choice.

So of course the mother should not have been ejected, but she should have had to fold the buggy if she wanted to stay on.

Wheelchair user hat on - I would hate hate hate to put someone in that position! I prefer the hiding and being like everyone else thing despite the chair and putting someone to inconvenience just to suit me is just eeekkk and wrong.

vivatifosi

I heard the supporters of this motion being interviewed yesterday. They said that they routinely were denied boarding on buses several times per week and in some instances daily. It was not a rare occurrence.

They also said that part of the problem is that London buses have a message preinstalled asking people to fold up buggies and put them away so that a wheelchair user can board, but don't play it and will tell the wheelchair user there is no space... in other words, the mum with buggy is often not asked. It did seem to be very much about London.

ETA: also pushchairs do seem to be getting bigger and bigger. Perhaps there is a market for a smaller more nimble pushchair that can easily be folded and perhaps used in conjunction with a papoose or similar. It strikes me that the wheelchair users are the ones without the choice of carriage, whereas with planning parents do have a bit more choice. Or have double decker buses where most of the downstairs is standing/pushchair/wheelchair shared use. There has to be a solution that doesn't involved having regular face offs between disabled people and parents to small children.

Generali

Public transport provision for parents with kids even in London is woeful. I was told I could not board an empty bus as there 'wasn't space' for the buggy.

Of course public transport provision for those in wheelchair is even worse.

Maybe we need to accept that public transport is a common good that is at least partly provided (or paid for) by the state for the use of the community at large. That community includes people in wheelchairs and people with prams.

SingleSue

vivatifosi wrote: »

I heard the supporters of this motion being interviewed yesterday. They said that they routinely were denied boarding on buses several times per week and in some instances daily. It was not a rare occurrence.

They also said that part of the problem is that London buses have a message preinstalled asking people to fold up buggies and put them away so that a wheelchair user can board, but don't play it and will tell the wheelchair user there is no space... in other words, the mum with buggy is often not asked. It did seem to be very much about London.

ETA: also pushchairs do seem to be getting bigger and bigger. Perhaps there is a market for a smaller more nimble pushchair that can easily be folded and perhaps used in conjunction with a papoose or similar. It strikes me that the wheelchair users are the ones without the choice of carriage, whereas with planning parents do have a bit more choice. Or have double decker buses where most of the downstairs is standing/pushchair/wheelchair shared use. There has to be a solution that doesn't involved having regular face offs between disabled people and parents to small children.

One of the things our local park and ride did was to create two spaces for wheelchairs/buggies, took a lot of heat off and made it a far more happier place to be. Local buses are not so great though with only the one space but I now rarely use the bus, preferring to go by train if we need to visit the next town over for shopping and I am unable to drive.

In London and on the tube, it is a very rare event that the wheelchair space is available, at those times, my chair and me is with the rest of the bods standing in the aisle.....sometimes with very funny results (had more than my fair share of very nice men ending up sitting on my lap when the train has come to an abrupt halt:rotfl:)

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Public transport provision for parents with kids even in London is woeful. I was told I could not board an empty bus as there 'wasn't space' for the buggy.

Of course public transport provision for those in wheelchair is even worse.

Maybe we need to accept that public transport is a common good that is at least partly provided (or paid for) by the state for the use of the community at large. That community includes people in wheelchairs and people with prams.

I have to say that, my unstructured view is that nearly all London buses have some space for a wheelchair.

Interested to know what other people using London buses think

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

I have to say that, my unstructured view is that nearly all London buses have some space for a wheelchair.

Interested to know what other people using London buses think

I was broadening things out to London public transport in general. The tube must be basically impassable and the overground not much better.

Mojisola

SingleSue wrote: »

One of the things our local park and ride did was to create two spaces for wheelchairs/buggies, took a lot of heat off and made it a far more happier place to be.

Ours did the opposite.

The old buses had two spaces - the wonderful new buses that 'kneel down' to allow easy access for wheelchair users only have one space.

Someone really thought that through!

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

I was broadening things out to London public transport in general. The tube must be basically impassable and the overground not much better.

interesting to read but I don't know the reality about London

Step-free stations and vehicles
All our bus routes are served by low-floor vehicles, with a dedicated wheelchair space and an access ramp. They can also 'kneel' to reduce the step-up from the pavement.

Around a quarter of Tube stations, half of Overground stations, most piers, all tram stops, the Emirates Air Line and all DLR stations have step-free access.

Some step-free stations still have a gap and step between the platform and the train. The Tube map shows which Underground, Overground and DLR stations are step-free. The blue symbol shows step-free access from street to train and the white symbol shows step-free access from street to platform.

also as some-one mentioned taxi

If you arrive at a Tube, TfL Rail or Overground station and the lift is unavailable, staff will help you to plan an alternative journey to your destination. If there isn't a reasonable alternative route, we'll book you a taxi (at our cost) to take you to your destination or another step-free station from where you can continue your journey.

full details

https://tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/wheelchair-access-and-avoiding-stairs


it would seem they are trying