Wheelchair bus case

chewmylegoff

CLAPTON wrote: »

unlikely :
I believe people get fined for dropping litter and the police will enforce the matter (if they are not too busy)

Dropping litter is a criminal offence though.

lisyloo

chewmylegoff wrote: »

I'm not sure what the police would do if they were called and asked to remove a person from a bus who didn't have a valid ticket but wasn't being violent or otherwise causing a risk to other passengers or themselves. Presumably they would see it as a civil matter and tell the bus company to sort it out themselves as they had better things to do like eat doughnuts.

On the train I was on the police took the girls away who's only offence was not having a ticket or being able to pay for one I.e. They weren't a risk to others.

In practice a train is different as it holds up all trains on the line, but legally I don't see the difference, so yes if the police are called to remove people from public transport then they will.

These girls also were under the impression that the train company would not get the police.
They were wrong.

chewmylegoff

lisyloo wrote: »

On the train I was on the police took the girls away who's only offence was not having a ticket or being able to pay for one I.e. They weren't a risk to others.

In practice a train is different as it holds up all trains on the line, but legally I don't see the difference, so yes if the police are called to remove people from public transport then they will.

These girls also were under the impression that the train company would not get the police.
They were wrong.

Again, I think that is a technically a criminal offence under specific legislation applying only to railways, plus the railways have their own dedicated police force to enforce the law (in addition to the separate matter of the contractual breach which is a civil matter between the passenger and the rail operator).

GwylimT

Before we moved my wife had to rent a motability car as in her first two weeks of attempting to get the bus to work there was an unfolded pushchair in the wheelchair only space eight times!

When my son was young I regularly used the bus, holding a baby and folding a pushchair really isn't that hard.

CLAPTON

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Again, I think that is a technically a criminal offence under specific legislation applying only to railways, plus the railways have their own dedicated police force to enforce the law (in addition to the separate matter of the contractual breach which is a civil matter between the passenger and the rail operator).

I am not a legal eagle but
it would be perverse for the supreme court to order the bus company to force people to vacate the wheel chair slot, without providing any legal way of actually enforcing the law.

SingleSue

I'm a wheelchair user but also a parent so can see it from both sides.

As a parent, it is an absolute nightmare to wake a baby, fold the buggy up and then try to juggle everything plus bags (especially if you have other children/children with disabilities), more so if you had a mahoosive double buggy like we had...those things do not fold small or easily with one or more children in tow.

As a person in a wheelchair, your heart sinks when a bus pulls up and you can see the wheelchair space occupied as I hate causing hassle for others due to my disability but at the same time, I would also like to get home without too many delays.

I generally wave the bus on because of the hassle and stress factor and because despite being in a wheelchair, I am not a special snowflake, just someone who happens to use a chair and I am in no way more special or needy than a hassled parent with a screaming baby and a whole bus of annoyed (and now deafened) passengers.

chucknorris

chucknorris wrote: »

Disabled passengers and mothers with prams should have the right to trial by combat, the passengers would have to wait, but they would be entertained by watching the fight. The bus company could play piped music, perhaps something like 'amok time' (the fighting music from star trek):
https://seanmunger.com/2013/10/23/stravinsky-in-space-the-classic-fight-music-from-star-trek-audio/

After reading SingleSue's post above, it made me think, surely the fault here lies with the design of the buses. I have to admit that I very rarely use buses and I can't remember what the capacity for pram/wheelchair spaces that they have is, but if disabled passengers are inconvenienced on more than just the very rare occasion, it doesn't sound like enough capacity is provided to me. Surely those spaces could be increased in a flexible manner, similar to way that the tube has done, i.e. fold down seats that can be used by non disabled passengers 99% of the time, but when required could also be used by disabled passengers and/or parents with prams. It just isn't right that a disabled person should be put in the position that SingleSue describes above.

EDIT: If you don't agree, think about this, we are all just one accident away from being in a wheelchair ourselves.

Kim_kim

If you are are the parent of a child in a buggy & you use public transport get a buggy that folds down easily.

The parent had a choice, they could have folded the buggy up.
The wheelchair user didn't have a choice.

So of course the mother should not have been ejected, but she should have had to fold the buggy if she wanted to stay on.

Generali

AIUI, bus companies' T&Cs constitute bylaws and so a breach of the bylaws is a criminal act. There are presumably limits placed on the extent of the bylaws to prevent the CEO of a bus company introducing doit de seigneur for bus drivers or something.

If the courts rule in favour of our wheelchair-bound hero then the companies will have to change their bylaws.

lisyloo

chucknorris wrote: »

After reading SingleSue's post above, it made me think, surely the fault here lies with the design of the buses. I have to admit that I very rarely use buses and I can't remember what the capacity for pram/wheelchair spaces that they have is, but if disabled passengers are inconvenienced on more than just the very rare occasion, it doesn't sound like enough capacity is provided to me. Surely those spaces could be increased in a flexible manner, similar to way that the tube has done, i.e. fold down seats that can be used by non disabled passengers 99% of the time, but when required could also be used by disabled passengers and/or parents with prams. It just isn't right that a disabled person should be put in the position that SingleSue describes above.

EDIT: If you don't agree, think about this, we are all just one accident away from being in a wheelchair ourselves.

It's quite rare chuck, and even rarer that people won't move, this is more a matter of principle and to enable the correct procedures/training/laws in place.
The London buses I go on e.g. Routemasters have space for a normal sized wheelchair and a buggy or 2 buggys. It does happen occassionally but it's rare to get 3 buggys/wheelchairs although you do sometimes see bigger examples.