subsidence......should we run away fast?

Taylor132

Hi

So a little bit of background.....me and my partner are looking for a project (we'll see other threads dotted around from me on other properties we have looked at). We want a 5 bed + more house. Ideally in a rural location but close to a major city (where I work).

We realise this is a MAJOR ask and As you can imagine, this is limiting what we can afford. A (potenital) absolute bargain has come on the market. Its a 5 bed Victorian (1850s) end of a small terrace. Massive. Its got a basement area which could up the bedroom count. Plus garage and large garden (although most of this is vertical) :rotfl:

Its got problems...... subsidence for one. A couple were going to buy in Feb this year but had the survey done and had to pull out due to mortgage issues (its cash purchase only....). This survey has been made available to us.

Its a full renovation project.

Main issues are:

- Subsidence (house is on the top of a hill - the garden is in steep steps). Don't know if its old, recent or even active subsidence at the moment - structural engineer report would be the next step.
- Windows - all single glazed and rotting. The neighbour has got uPVC - is this ok for a house of this age? I don't want to cause damp/condensation issues etc.
- Basement - it needs ripping out, sorting and redoing
- Roof - mostly ok (confirmed in report and obviously new) but chimneys need some love and I want to check if the cement tiles are really ok for the roof. My understanding is that the original roof would have been slate so significantly lighter than cement tiles......

Redecoration is required but I've lived in a lot worse in student digs. I could give it a deep, deep clean and live there while redecorating. Its over 4 floors so we could sort floor by floor. Just need a kitchen, bathroom and bedroom as absolute basic requirements.

So come on....hit me with your best advice/comments etc.

I realise my preferences/choices are not for everyone, so please keep it constructive if you think I'm mental.

dragonsoup

Taylor132 wrote: »

).

- Windows - all single glazed and rotting. The neighbour has got uPVC - is this ok for a house of this age? I don't want to cause damp/condensation issues etc.

I realise my preferences/choices are not for everyone, so please keep it constructive if you think I'm mental.

The fact it isn't mortageable would worry me and I'd certainly want to get to the bottom of the subsidence. I'd want to be sure I could sell it at full value or close to full value having spent a lot of time and money on it.

As for damp and double glazing - I have two period properties myself, One is 1802 has single glazing ( mostly) and open fire places and we have no condensation issues. The second one is about 1840. It is fully double glazed and we have awful condensation issues. The only solution seems to be to dry line the external walls which we will do this autumn.

Make of that what you will. I would go and have a chat with the neighbours and see what they say. They are however going to have fewer cold outside walls than you will.

cattie

You actually don't say whether you're a cash buyer or not as unlikely any lender will grant mortgage on a property with current subsidence issues.

Also even if cash buyer, buildings insurance could be a problem unless subsidence claim is already in & insurance co agreeing work required & you then need to stick with existing insurer as likely no other company will want to take you on.

The advice from somebody who bought a house (cash buyer) with recent previous subsidence issues is to run a mile unless you seriously intend to make this your forever house. The house I bought had had remedial work done 2 years previously & also needed a costly refurb as hasn't been touched since the '70's & was very dated & grubby.

When I came to sell after around 4.5 yrs, though I had decent interest in the house, I had to take quite a hit on the price as I didn't want to lose out on buying my current home & knew it could take a good while to find a buyer offering closer to asking price. I'd never consider another property with such issues ever again as it is just too limiting & the S word frightens potential buyers off.

cashbackproblems

Run a mile, I have a friend who bought a newish flat which needed underpinning and all was signed off by engineers and fixed. However years down the line when he needed to take out buildings insurance he was facing huge quotes (insurance not included with service charges)

dc197

You need to find out more about the subsidence.
It could be 30 years old, stable, and with underpinning it has better foundations than its neighbours.
It could have started last week.
Get the experts in to tell you more, and get as much paperwork from the current owners as possible (they might have an insurance claim from decades ago, for e.g.)

eddddy

cattie wrote: »

I had to take quite a hit on the price as I didn't want to lose out on buying my current home & knew it could take a good while to find a buyer offering closer to asking price...

Isn't what you're saying that you have to pitch your offer price correctly?

e.g. You offer £30k less than similar 'problem-free' houses, and expect to sell for £30k less than similar 'problem-free' houses.

So you can potentially get more house for your money - i.e. a house that might otherwise been £30k beyond your budget.


(Obviously that's a simplified example - you need to factor in any repair costs, increased insurance costs etc.)

DaftyDuck

I do up large houses as part of my insanity training. It's not for the feint-hearted (just those who faint).

But, it's probably not a bargain... why would it be? Terrace means plenty of comparables for agent to use, and it doesn't sound like a wreck (I mean it does have a roof, and that's quite something)!

New windows... if it needs them (and I don't disagree), then there's nothing wrong with uPVC in an 1850's property; plenty have them. I wouldn't, if it's a pretty property with period features, but a Victorian terrace house isn't exactly unique. Wood windows will cost about double.

Cement tiling is too heavy, almost certainly, and would cause the roof to sag and walls to splay. If new, it's an expensive loss if it does need redoing correctly.

The subsidence; who knows? You'd either need an structural engineer to diagnose, or a very good builder to give an honest appraisal of costs if it does have it, and take the gamble. It could be tens of thousands... it could be practically insoluble....

The rest is just DIY when you have the time and cash...

bitsandpieces

DaftyDuck wrote: »

But, it's probably not a bargain... why would it be?

Agree on this bit - if it was a bargain, why wouldn't a developer have snapped it up by now and fixed it up for a profit? Of course, if you're willing/able to DIY a lot of work you may be able to do it cheaper than a developer paying professionals (although your own time has a value to it, unless you do enjoy doing this type of thing). What are your goals here - do you think this would make a lovely home, do you want to sell on for profit, or..?

Cakeguts

You say it is on a hill? Does it look as if the ground on the hill is moving down the hill. I once viewed a bungalow that was turning into a mobile home by moving down the hill it was at the top of. If the whole hill top is on the move there won't be anything to underpin it to.

phoebe1989seb

Like Dafty, we buy old *interesting* houses - usually complete one-offs - to live in, not for profit, all of which have been projects, some unmortgageable, the last one definitely a wreck

Our current detached Victorian house is built into the side of an escarpment - and has a few (minor) historic signs of movement - we didn't buy with a mortgage and had no issues with insurance, but if there is ongoing subsidence I would hesitate to buy unless I a) had a structural engineer's report confirming it was a fixable issue and b) I had access to the cash to do the fixing.

Windows - I would personally never put upvc Windows in a period property! Our house was built in 1853, but was extended in the 1920s when around 14 (two thirds) of the timber sash windows and 6 doors were replaced with metal Crittalls. We're not listed, but are in a conservation area and our house specifically has an article 4 direction as it is considered to be 'of townscape merit' so we'd need planning permission to change them if we wanted to. It's a very special house though and I can understand it not mattering as much on a bog-standard terrace - not saying the one you're looking at buying is bog-standard

You do need to be a certain type to take on these old characterful places - mad probably. Which we definitely are. It's not for everyone but can be character-building as well rewarding. Although not always financially as I know to my cost.

Taylor132

Thank you all for your comments. Loads to think about.

The key to this one, like almost everything in life is price.

I do know developers have been off put because they can't recoup their costs....Saying that though, I'm not sure how far into it they actually went. (I know, much, much more research needed)

I have a tiny flicker of hope with the subsidence (***I AM IN NO WAY AN EXPERT***) but the hill does not appear to be moving and the neighbour has advised she has lived there 40 years and hers has only moved 1/2inch. Obviously this is no guarantee.......

The surveyor for the purchase has raised the subsidence as a potential issue - worst case £60k best case minor works etc. He said the roof was fine........curious as there did appear to be some bowing in the roof supports in specific areas which would tie in with the 'newish' additional weight. Could anyone give a rough indication of the cost to re-roof in slate? Also...he raised damp as an issue.....It didn't smell unusually damp for an old property unlived in and unheated for nearly 12 months. Due to the rotten windows and doors and its own position on the hill, it is relatively exposed.

Plus he recommended getting a PCA approved damp expert in. In my humble opinion that would be total and utter butchery to the property. I adhere to heritage house philosophy..... Plus I hate, hate, hate not knowing why......I would want to find out why its damp not just injection chemicals into this beautiful old lady of a house. Ok, rant over.

Got to run for now.