What is employers' problem

undaunted

Guest101 wrote: »

I'm sure they do repeat whole phrases back to the OP, just to confirm they heard him right.....

Something of that nature yes. If the posters as well read and intelligent as he'd have us believe I'm surprised he isn't familiar with the term reflection (no mention of Dad in there at all!)


http://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/reflecting.html

Xikams wrote: »

I still can't see what this has to do with employers and how they advertise & fill their jobs.

He or she (?) was trying to tell you that your problem is not with employers and how they advertise and fill jobs but with your attitude and the way you are coming across to interviewers once they see the person behind what is presumably an initially impressive sounding CV!


You tell us that you are getting the interviews so must presumably look good on that CV and yet you are leaving those interviews without the job & seemingly increasingly angry / frustrated. There has to be an explanation for that - you came here asking what the problem is. The general consensus appears to be that your attitude is probably the issue they see and yet you seek to deride that consensus in favour of your own failed opinions. What would Freud, Jung or Nietzsche make of that do you think - “Out of your vulnerabilities will come your strength.” (Freud)


"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to a better understanding of ourselves" (Jung)


"There are no facts, only interpretations" (Nietzsche) perhaps?

bod1467

Malthusian wrote: »

Every time someone acts like a bit of an !!!! on the Internet someone says "maybe they're on the autistic spectrum".

You mean the OP sounds like a person without any "issues"?

Xikams

Guest101 wrote: »

You need to either:
Change your attitude
Or go self employed

My attitude is that I can and will get a job (probably in the next several days). If you're suggesting that needs changing and I should give up searching, you'll complain I'm sponging off your tax money too.

Sncjw wrote: »

You just talk a load of waffle maybe that's what's putting people off along with your sexist views. Also combined with your sense of entitlement

I think people have had trouble listening.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

It has everything to do with it. People don't want you working for them. Because you're not likeable, not qualified, not very bright, and have a massive and massively unjustified opinion of yourself. It's YOU they don't want.

On the contrary I have a social circle, plenty of qualifications (in a variety of industries), and are tended to be called "friendly" and "very intelligent". In fact, you're so wrong about that entire statement that I'm starting to understand a lot better how it's not really about me at all.

undaunted wrote: »

You tell us that you are getting the interviews so must presumably look good on that CV and yet you are leaving those interviews without the job & seemingly increasingly angry / frustrated. There has to be an explanation for that - you came here asking what the problem is.

If you read the original topic of the post, you'll see that I have already got to that point. I'm not getting jobs I apply for, and that doesn't just go for interview stage either. It also goes for jobs that I am clearly capable of but not even getting an initial reply. Most of my applications don't get a reply at all. So take all that you think that it is down about my interview technique or personal attitude and throw it out the window instead of making assumptions.

The jobs I am going for are in my league, and so are the companies. There are companies above my league and below it, this goes for anyone, it's not really a ranking system but just a fact of probability if you're going to fit in. These are also places where I tend to make friends more easily and just get along.

What I am finding, as I said earlier, on multiple occasions, is that the employer is not clear about what kind of person they are looking for, but want to ask all about me. They aren't clear about the exact roles, but want to know everything I've done. They don't tell me when I ask what systems they use, but they want to know what I've used. And when I ask about how their teams work, they use sales-talk, but they will want to know the specifics of my previous jobs.

tomtontom

bod1467 wrote: »

You mean the OP sounds like a person without any "issues"?

His issues are attitudinal. I would not assume someone with a poor attutude, an ignorance towards half the population and a staggering arrogance to have autism or other disability. I would simply assume them to be a very unpleasant person.

[Deleted User]

Xikams wrote: »

I'm starting to understand a lot better how it's not really about me at all

What I am finding, as I said earlier, on multiple occasions, is that the employer is not clear about what kind of person they are looking for, but want to ask all about me. They aren't clear about the exact roles, but want to know everything I've done. They don't tell me when I ask what systems they use, but they want to know what I've used. And when I ask about how their teams work, they use sales-talk, but they will want to know the specifics of my previous jobs.

Good.

Boils down to is the job vacancy genuine? Trust your gut, tho I'm not sure how you can ever protect against.

Don't know about you but I have found from looking this week, an awful lot more employer's are wanting to do likes of verbal numerical and literacy testing with an interview no longer a chat, so I'd struggle to believe it is a personality game anymore. Maybe that will get you some relief.

theoretica

Xikams wrote: »

I'm starting to understand a lot better how it's not really about me at all.

No, and the way this thread is going isn't about you - it is about what you are writing and how you are writing it on here. Only you know how close that is to 'you'.

Xikams wrote: »

What I am finding, as I said earlier, on multiple occasions, is that the employer is not clear about what kind of person they are looking for, but want to ask all about me. They aren't clear about the exact roles, but want to know everything I've done. They don't tell me when I ask what systems they use, but they want to know what I've used. And when I ask about how their teams work, they use sales-talk, but they will want to know the specifics of my previous jobs.

Well of course - if they tell candidates they want X then everyone will act X in the interview however they are normally. And more people can keep up a persona for an hour at interview than for years at work. If they don't say exactly what shape hole they are looking to fill then candidates have a harder time pretending to be that shape when they aren't.

Xikams

tomtontom wrote: »

His issues are attitudinal. I would not assume someone with a poor attutude, an ignorance towards half the population and a staggering arrogance to have autism or other disability. I would simply assume them to be a very unpleasant person.

Oi matey! Pull up dem bootstraps. *hawk* Yooo wunt a jub? Pull up dem bluddy bootstraps! *spits*

Deleted%20User wrote: »

Boils down to is the job vacancy genuine?

Well some people I've met before in jobsearches (like job fairs, hanging around agencies etc) say things like "Oh they're just applying for people to get them on their books" that kind of thing which just makes me shrug, it's better to try for a job than not. As long as you aren't putting your personal address or details on CVs or that kind of thing.

You do get some pretty interesting tests. A common one is how you "boosted company efficiency" or "increased revenue". You're usually tested on how you brought value to a team and sometimes you may be asked how you introduced a more efficient company process. One time it was required to come up with ideas to get only specific positive feedback for company marketing as part of the test and to give pure ideas for revenue-enhancing strategies.

I don't like answering these questions because it's a one-way street. Sure they evaluate competence, and you have to, but once they get real-world answers then they can use the interview process to harvest ideas. Not only does it feel dishonest but also that they aren't very good as a company. It's not as if they'll repay me the favour either.

Deleted%20User wrote: »

Don't know about you but I have found from looking this week, an awful lot more employer's are wanting to do likes of verbal numerical and literacy testing with an interview no longer a chat, so I'd struggle to believe it is a personality game anymore. Maybe that will get you some relief.

Yes some tests are odd. Agencies will usually just test you on basic skills. Employers will be much more intensive about competency tests and they all have their own standard. One of them, you could tell from the serifs on the letters that it was done a fair time ago, the questions were complex and the time limit was deliberately impossible. So you're under pressure to perform, and the initial phone/formal interview feels arbitrary, especially when the job relies on technical ability.

undaunted

Xikams wrote: »

My attitude is that I can and will get a job (probably in the next several days). If you're suggesting that needs changing and I should give up searching, you'll complain I'm sponging off your tax money too.

I think people have had trouble listening.

That may be part of your attitude to your situation but is not reflective of what you've said above - EG in the first 2 pages alone do you really not see a rather more divisive & off putting attitude displayed here than that you profess to be you?

Xikams wrote: »

It's not just this week but the last two/three weeks. I'm cross with this, about 100 applications, several interviews, gave it my best, jobs I have done forever, and apparently I'm not up to scratch.

Sorry, I don't believe it. I have good references, a strong background, there is no real reason why I'm not getting the job. And not only that, but it's not like they come to my flat either. I always have to go to them, do their tests, learn about their company, and it turns out to be a waste of time and money, while they get their needs met every time.

So employers, what do you REALLY want? You don't want experienced workers with common sense and a can-do attitude who take the time to learn about you, that's for sure. Also can you pay back the money I spend on bus trips if you're not going to treat a jobseeker seriously?

Xikams wrote: »

They are never clear about it. Things like "We found a more suitable candidate" or "We didn't feel you were right for the team". I hate it, because I give them specific answers, and they turn around and get vague or don't even reply.


Well then they're stupid, because they are missing out on someone who is going to be fully committed, flexible with hours, sponge for a brain, comfortable with targets, ideas man, self-motivated, able to turn up on time, grown-up and ready to work. If they're not taking me into their team then maybe it's them with the problem.

Xikams wrote: »

Look, I'm sorry, but doesn't that go without saying? As a guy, I admit being clueless with emotions, but just want to fit in and do the job.

Come to think of it, ALL my interviewers have been women so far. And the entire HR team are all women. On the bottom end there are mostly men, and on the top end there are universally men. So maybe there's a trick to that.

Xikams wrote: »

Would it kill you to think that I actually BELIEVE in these words?.............



In interviews I despise using generic statements and try to "sell the truth" as it were. My work history is not an Oxford fantasy, but neither have I been sitting on my backside. And anyway, after the number of tests I've been through, what do I need to prove to you??


I'm not lashing out honey, I'm disagreeing. We can still be friends. :x ......


Uh... hmmm.. ummm... (turns to psychiatist, talks, looks back) Yes. Yes, it does............


Hold on to your butts. ......

Xikams wrote: »

I totally understand this, but this language gangbang has to end. It's so frustrating, because the ad will say something like

- "Swift complaint resolution!"
Actual Job: Passing the buck here and there and here and there and here and there and

- Team Spirit attitude!
Actual Job: Work alone constantly, day after day, literally no feedback from anybody until a complaint arrives. And that's it.

- Pro-active approach to problems.
Actual job: Shout at customers/clients shouting at you, shout at them back, shout, let it all out, these are the things we can do without, enforce company policy above all else

- We love common sense people who self-organise and implement creative solutions! : D : D
Actual Job: YOU MADE A TEA FOR YOURSELF OUT OF YOUR SCHEDULED BREAK HOW DARE YOU NOT GO TO SUPERVISOR DISCIPLINARY RRRRRR

The fantastic majority DO NOT CARE about how you dress these jobs up - what matters is that you're in a job. Screw the week of training, as it's so poor anyway, if you hate staff, stop advertising them as permanent and put temporary contracts out. Both parties win that way.

So you sometimes don't get replies....... a common practice these days I'm afraid. Some may possibly consider that your over qualified & not reply, others just have lots of qualified candidates...... Who knows why.


The point is that where you have obtained interviews you've still come away frustrated at not getting the job. Somebody did get it so presumably the interviewers considered them a better fit than you in some way.


If you're trying to decide which questions you'll answer / in how much detail it probably isn't going to endear you to the average interviewer.


I would suggest that you've also shown above chauvinism / sexist language, defensiveness, sarcasm, anger / frustration, a know it all and dismissive attitude to anything that doesn't suit your own view, a clear sense of entitlement - how dare they not see you as the man for the job? and so on. This may or may not be coming across at interview. If it does then I'd have to ask what employer wants to take on or keep that kind of attitude if they do find they've inadvertently done so?

Xikams

undaunted wrote: »

If you're trying to decide which questions you'll answer / in how much detail it probably isn't going to endear you to the average interviewer.

Which is why I endeavor to speak in plain English and cater to each position. This is why I'm not usually out of work (and won't be for long either).

undaunted wrote: »

I would suggest that you've also shown above chauvinism / sexist language

No matter what you say, experiences are not opinions, and neither do I need to validate myself to you - that would be immature. If you'd say "Well yes, but..." in any condition to that, then I would count that as a sign of strong immaturity. Again, in my experiences, both male and female chauvinism and language is fairly common and widespread in the workplace.

undaunted wrote: »

I would suggest that you've also shown ... defensiveness, sarcasm, anger / frustration

undaunted wrote: »

Some may possibly consider that your over qualified & not reply, others just have lots of qualified candidates...... Who knows why.

While some people here are ready to talk about jobs, which is why I am posting here, many of you are also displaying the same attitude, in which they are not. When you spend so much time working on jobs, getting past the phone interview, getting onto the first interview, and getting nowhere with companies, then receiving self-absorbed opinions on your person by a random strangers on the internet who have never met you - why should I tolerate it? I get further by not tolerating it.

undaunted

Xikams wrote: »

Which is why I endeavor to speak in plain English and cater to each position. This is why I'm not usually out of work (and won't be for long either).


No matter what you say, experiences are not opinions, and neither do I need to validate myself to you - that would be immature. If you'd say "Well yes, but..." in any condition to that, then I would count that as a sign of strong immaturity. Again, in my experiences, both male and female chauvinism and language is fairly common and widespread in the workplace.



While some people here are ready to talk about jobs, which is why I am posting here, many of you are also displaying the same attitude, in which they are not. When you spend so much time working on jobs, getting past the phone interview, getting onto the first interview, and getting nowhere with companies, then receiving self-absorbed opinions on your person by a random strangers on the internet who have never met you - why should I tolerate it? I get further by not tolerating it.

A)The above is not plain English - actually I haven't got a clue what you are talking about in your 2nd paragraph.


Putting it in plain English you came here and asked the question of random strangers - Nobody forced you to do so! You therefore have to be open to hearing the answers those strangers give as others perceive you, like them or not


Self absorbed, tolerate? oh the irony here!!! :rotfl:


Interviews are often very much about you and the other candidates / members of the team etc and how the interviewer(s) - not you!! perceive that this will all gel. Had you got further so far you wouldn't have felt that you needed to post!