Defective hob part - how to proceed next

littlerock

I have some problems with a Whirlpool gas hob which I purchased online from the Co-op in late April this year (2016.) I have been discussing this on the D-I-Y forum above and it seems like it now comes down to an issue of consumer rights, to get a defective part replaced. So I have moved my query here as I think it may be a bit more complicated from now on and should welcome advice on how to proceed from hereon in.

In April this year I decided to renovate my kitchen. On 20 April 2016, I bought a 5 burner Whirlpool gas hob with a wok burner, from the C0-op, online. I also bought an extended warranty for 3 years at the same time (the co-op sell these at cost.) I paid via Paypal.

The hob was one of a number of items I got on site in anticipation of the fitter arriving. The hob arrived on 21 April well packaged but I did check it and there was no sign of damage. Then the fitter let me down and I had a short delay while I found another. Being a gas hob it needed connecting to the supply by a gas safe engineer and this took place last of all the works, on 7th June 2016.

I then got out my pans to try it out. When I put the wok pan on the wok burner, it toppled over. After some investigation it turned out that one of the arm supports on the wok pan support was a bit lower than the others, not by much, but enough to make the wok and other pans unstable. It was not a case of giving a gentle tap with a hammer as they are welded on.

I sighed and got out my warranty to phone the Co-op and request a replacement pan support. (I noticed that the documents said in the first year the manufacturers warranty would apply.) It gave an 0845 number to phone in the first instance, which I did. I spoke to a young woman I believed to be part of the co-op organisation and she checked I was covered and said she needed to transfer me to the Parts department.

A voice then answered which said "Parts". At this stage I still thought I was dealing with the Co-op. I explained the problem, and "Parts" said if the hob was damaged, it had to be reported within 48 hours after delivery. I explained it was not damaged on arrival,this was a manufacturing defect with the wok pan support only apparent when first used and I just needed a replacement.

"Parts" then said that the pan supports and knobs were classified as cosmetic items and not covered by the warranty. I pointed out the hob was new and unused and the pan support had a manufacturing defect which only became apparent on first using it. It also made it unsafe.She said it made no difference, pansupports were not covered by warranty and if I wanted to complain I should email [email]theservicecentre@indesit...This[/email] was my first indication that maybe I was no longer dealing with the co-op but the manufacturer.

I said I thought this might be a matter for Trading Standards and could she please give me her Head Office address. She said she did not know what that was and repeated her advice to contact indesit service centre by email.

Realising I had probably not been dealing with the co-op I spoke again to the original 0845 number who confirmed that they were not part of the Co-Op but handled warranty claims management for them. I know Whirlpool bought Indesit not long ago so I assume when I was transferred to "Parts", I was actually put through to a service centre for Whirlpool and Indesit, which I believe is run by Domestic and General. At no stage did "Parts" identify which organisation she worked for.

I then phoned up CAB and reported it to them and they said as the pan support was unsafe this was an additional reason to report it to TS and they would pass it on. They also gave me some useful advice about the Consumer Rights and Sale of Goods Acts and on making a formal complaint to the Co-Op in writing, which I have now done, using a Which template. I have required them to provide me with a replacement wok pan support at no cost or inconvenience to me. (I do have a photo showing the misalignment of the arm).

However I now have a confession to make. I want to use my renovated kitchen so I went online to see if I could buy a replacement wok pan support, while waiting for my complaint to be resolved. And these pan supports do not exist as spares anywhere on line. You can get two burner ones, but not the work burner support.

So here are my questions:

1) if the C0-op also find the wok pansupport is not available as a spare and send someone round to repair the current one, who wants to bang it into shape, can I reject this as it would weaken the structure, given the support is welded onto the frame?

2) if they offer a partial refund can I reject it,as I need the part, which does not seem to be available, not the money?

3) what if they just send me back round the loop I have already been round, saying that the pansupports are not covered by the warranty, what should be my next move?

4) if they cannot provide a suitable spare but offer a refund or replacement hob, can I charge them for the cost of having the current one removed and the replacement fitted and connected to the gas?

5) Should I open a dispute with Paypal now, as I am still within the time frame, or wait to see if it gets resolved over the next week?

Silver-Surfer_2

You won't get any money back for fitting and removal of the defective hob. Or rather you're not entitled to any, who knows what they may offer by way of good will.

If you feel you're getting nowhere try the PayPal route and see what comes of it.

bod1467

Silver-Surfer wrote: »

You won't get any money back for fitting and removal of the defective hob. Or rather you're not entitled to any, who knows what they may offer by way of good will.

I don't believe that's entirely true ... the seller is liable for all costs relating to providing a remedy for faulty goods.

Of course the seller can provide their own gas-safe registered fitter to remove the defective unit and install the replacement.

OP is outside the automatic right to reject for a full refund per the CRA 2015 - they reported the issue more than 30 days after receipt. However in this case that actually makes their case stronger ... they're not invoking that right, so they're now invoking the SADFART aspect of CRA that came over from SOGA - hence the seller is liable for all (reasonable) costs in providing the remedy.

wealdroam

For anyone interested, here is the OP's earlier thread:

Wok Pan stand not level on new hob

littlerock

Yes that is what CAB told me, the remedy should be at their expense and not involve me in cost or inconvenience

littlerock

What I think is interesting here is that the Co-op's method of resolving faults or issues with white goods.

When you look at your Co-Op warranty paperwork to find where to report a fault, it gives you an 0845 number to call in the first instance. (The paperwork meanwhile refers to the manufacturers warranty as applying for the first year. )

The 0845 number is actually a claims management firm of some sort who handle claims for the Co-Op but they do not tell us this. You are given the impression this is all part of the same organisation which you assume to be the C0-Op.

They transfer you (internally) to "another department" (in my case "Parts") which is in fact a separate service support centre run by another organisation. On the other end of a phone you do not know this. The service centre person who answers the phone merely snaps "Parts" down the line.

The "Parts" person then quotes the manufacturer's warranty and in my case, tells you do not qualify for any remedy for a defective part. The "Parts" person quoted the manufacture'rs warranty as excluding pan supports and knobs, saying these were classified as cosmetic items only.

They advised me if unhappy to email theservicecentre@indesit. They said they did not know the name or address of their head office so could not give it to me.

This is the first inkling you have that you are not in fact dealing with the Co-Op but with the manufacturer's representative whose warranty is probably much narrower than your rights under the Sale of Goods Act or Consumer Rights Act. At no stage does the Parts person mention this alternative avenue to you.

It could all have been set up to avoid having to meet liabilities under the Sale of Goods or Consumer Rights Act. Of course that is just a supposition on my part. Still .....

littlerock

Update: When I spoke to the woman in "Parts" about getting a replacement pan support, she could not find the Whirlpool hob I have, on her computer system and asked me twice how long ago I bought it. Eventually in addition to saying pan supports were not covered by the warranty, she added that she would have to order them and charge me. I didn't pay too much attention at the time but at lunchtime I thought I would get out the paperwork which came with the hob.

The hob itself arrived in a polystyrene casing encased in bubble wrap. Tucked in side was a multi language leaflet on installation but no actual user guide in English. None of the usual literature with a happy family using their new hob etc. Also included was a leaflet called Warranty Conditions. On further inspection that is the only English wording it contains. It is in 16 languages but none of them are English.

So I am now wondering if the hob was part of a consignment destined for Europe which got diverted here. There are plenty for sale, but maybe it was never intended for sale in the UK originally so no English language User guide or warranty in the paperwork. That could also explain why it was not on "Parts'" computer and also why I cannot trace any spares for it here, things like pan supports and knobs - because it was never "officially" on sale over here. (When I type the model number into spares' suppliers' online searches, it comes up a blank.)

So the co-op may have difficulty in coming up with a replacement pan support unless someone cannibalises another unit.

Ian011

Hmm. You should not have been directed to call a premium rate 0845 number.

http://legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/41/made

There's another thing that can be refunded.

theonlywayisup

littlerock wrote: »

5) Should I open a dispute with Paypal now, as I am still within the time frame, or wait to see if it gets resolved over the next week?

Two threads and I haven't read them both fully.

You have 180 days to open a dispute with Paypal BUT you can only lodge a dispute if the item hasn't arrived of if the item is Significantly Not As Described (SNAD). Paypal do not offer warranties/guarantees.

If you want to go down the SNAD route, your best bet is to report the item as damaged on arrival. Add a photo showing the damage and don't drown the case with waffle.

Paypal should rule in your favour. This will mean you have to send the whole lot back, at your expense, for a full refund of the original purchase price.

Perhaps not the resolution you want but it is quick and easy if that's a solution that appeals. But you seriously do need to be factual and brief in the case. Any doubt that this isn't damage but is a warranty issue and the case will not go in your favour.