Fines in private driveways

mrsunnybunny

I am soon going to move to a property in a new development where the management company has engaged one of these parking ticketing scammers to give out tickets to unsuspecting residents.

As I am currently going through the appeals process for a ticket issued for parking in my own bay in an apartment block, I am trying to prepare myself and exactly understand what my rights are at the new property.

The new property is a freehold with driveway. There is a groundrent with the management company for the upkeep of the communal grounds. I trust this provides them with certain rights. Some roads on the development are public, others private.

Some roads on the development are public, others are owned by the management company. The driveway forms part of the freehold.

Rules are
1. Only one car on driveway
2. Residents may not park in visitor bays
3. Visitors must display disk and park for no more than 6 hours
4. Residents must display permit on driveway

With the above in mind, I am wondering about the following; would be grateful if someone could confirm
1. There are some public roads on the development. Public roads must surely be managed by the council. I assume no private company can issue tickets here
2. Private roads owned by the management company are are fair game - they can probably issue tickets here subject to the usual provisions
3. Can they issue tickets if I were to park in my own driveway without a disk?
4. Can they issue tickets if I were to park two cars on my driveway?
5. Is there a way I could sue the ticketing guys if there were to trespass onto my property?
6. In front of my driveway is a pedestrian path. In front of that is a road which is owned by the management company. What are my rights / their ability to ticket if I were to park myself in (ie half on pathway or entirely in road but in front of property)

Herzlos

Does the freehold include any parking conditions? If not, then you can do whatever you want with your driveway, and aren't bound to any other contract.

People have successfully sued parking wombles over trespass to a parking space, so you can definitely do the same for a driveway. Are you able to fit a gate?

They'll issue tickets for anything possible, until they get bored, as you'll be able to successfully defend every single one of them.

mrsunnybunny

The contract does make a provision for 1 car max per driveway and no modifications (specifically no fence/gate) in the first 10 years. I wonder to what extend this is actually enforceable given it is a freehold...

Ultimately what all of this comes down to is finding a solution for visitors who want to stay for longer than 6 hours (eg the weekend), ideally other than making them park at the train station car park.

My other issue is that I want to use a car cover which means the disk cannot be seen.

Herzlos

What does the contract actually say, and who is the contract with?

If you use a car cover, they can't actually do anything, that's your solution

dazster

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

1. There are some public roads on the development. Public roads must surely be managed by the council. I assume no private company can issue tickets here

You should check with the council as to exactly what roads have been adopted. Private companies certainly can't issue tickets on adopted roads but that doesn't stop them trying sometimes!

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

2. Private roads owned by the management company are are fair game - they can probably issue tickets here subject to the usual provisions

Possibly. It depends on what authority they have from the landowner (the management company does NOT own the roads), on precisely what signs they put up, and what they issue tickets for. For example, there have been cases recently where it has been successfully argued in court that a signs stating "No Parking" can't be enforced by a private parking company because it doesn't make any offer of a contract.,

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

3. Can they issue tickets if I were to park in my own driveway without a disk?

No of course not. They would be trespassing if they came onto your driveway.

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

4. Can they issue tickets if I were to park two cars on my driveway?

Nope. Where exactly does it say that you can only park one car on your driveway? If it's in your transfer deed then that is effectively a contract between you and whomever you bought the property from. It's none of the PPC's business, and it's highly unlikely that the seller could be bothered to sue you for breach of contract. If it says it anywhere else (e.g. in some document given to you by the management company or PPC) but it says nothing of the kind in your transfer deed then they can FRO: it's your land, you can do what you damned well like with it!

Again, they would be trespassing if they came onto your property.

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

5. Is there a way I could sue the ticketing guys if there were to trespass onto my property?

Yes. You can sue them for trespass. You could also get an injunction to prevent them trespassing, which would see them locked up if they breached it. Google Davey v. UKPC.

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

6. In front of my driveway is a pedestrian path. In front of that is a road which is owned by the management company. What are my rights / their ability to ticket if I were to park myself in (ie half on pathway or entirely in road but in front of property)

Again, the road is not owned by the management company. The road is owned by someone (not you) and you should try to respect that someone's rules. You have no right to park in contravention of the landowner's wishes. They would almost certainly ticket you, but how enforceable that would be would depend (as mentioned above) on things like signage.

Perhaps you should get Smart Cars so you can fit them both on your drive?

dazster

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

The contract does make a provision for 1 car max per driveway and no modifications (specifically no fence/gate) in the first 10 years. I wonder to what extend this is actually enforceable given it is a freehold...

It is enforceable - but only by the party you contracted with i.e. whomever sold you the property. Developers love to festoon transfers with covenants, some of which work, many of which don't, and some of which (like these) only work as a contractual agreement between buyer and seller. But, having come up with all this guff, developers are never interested in enforcing once they've sold the entire development, Why would they? There's nothing in it for them except hassle.

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

Ultimately what all of this comes down to is finding a solution for visitors who want to stay for longer than 6 hours (eg the weekend), ideally other than making them park at the train station car park.

Once you've established what roads have been adopted they could probably park on those subject to any restrictions imposed by the council.

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

My other issue is that I want to use a car cover which means the disk cannot be seen.

Don't matter if it's on your driveway.

Half_way

If the car cover covers the number plates then how will the parking bod know what car is underneath?

dazster

Half_way wrote: »

If the car cover covers the number plates then how will the parking bod know what car is underneath?

Could even attach the plates with strong Velcro and remove them when parking (or use Velcro or stick a cover over them). If there are signs stating that this is private property, residents only then no road traffic laws are applicable so plates don't have to be displayed.

Fruitcake

mrsunnybunny wrote: »

The contract does make a provision for 1 car max per driveway and no modifications (specifically no fence/gate) in the first 10 years. I wonder to what extend this is actually enforceable given it is a freehold...

Ultimately what all of this comes down to is finding a solution for visitors who want to stay for longer than 6 hours (eg the weekend), ideally other than making them park at the train station car park.

My other issue is that I want to use a car cover which means the disk cannot be seen.

Is this contract with the MA or the vendor? If there is no restriction on the property from the vendor and the driveway is part of the freehold, I don't see how the MA can impose rules on "your land."

Unicorn51

Parking more than one vehicle on your drive, is most probably a restrictive covenant put into the deeds by the original landowner/developer. It probably doesn’t say anything about displaying a permit.


If you breach this covenant then the only remedy is for the original landowner to take you to court, to claim damages or get an injunction.


A PPC has no right to come onto your property, that’s trespass.



I would get a copy of the contract between the PPC and the landowner/management company to see exactly what they are contracted to do.

dazster

Perzackly Unicorn. Nail hit head.

The one time I contacted an original landowner over getting them to enforce a covenant they replied (politely) that they no longer owned any land in the area and weren't remotely interested in enforcing the covenant.