Pay & Display machine not working

Mellorgolf

Thanks for reply so I guess I will now have to pay the £250 as the fact that the machine wasn't working is the only reason I didn't buy a ticket. At the time I was using this car park every day and clearly know it is a pay & display car park.

pappa_golf

£250 is a joke ! how are they making this fictional number up ?


I thought you said the charge was £100


so you are going to accept their word that there crap machine was working or are you going to get them to PROVE it was working


by paying this , you are saying , yup the machine was working OK , never mind I will pay bup

Quentin

Mellorgolf wrote: »

Conclusion:- If you get a Private Parking Charge Notice pay it.

Rubbish conclusion!


Why are you saying you must capitulate?


Do the research as advised in #9 and set about this!

nigelbb

In a Pay & Display car park the contract is formed when the ticket is purchased. If the purchase of the ticket was impossible then no contract existed. In this case there wasn't even frustration of contract as the contract didn't exist in the first place.

Coupon-mad

Mellorgolf wrote: »

Thanks for reply so I guess I will now have to pay the £250 as the fact that the machine wasn't working is the only reason I didn't buy a ticket. At the time I was using this car park every day and clearly know it is a pay & display car park. Conclusion:- If you get a Private Parking Charge Notice pay it.

Not sure you are a genuine victim of a PPC then. No-one ever says the above.

Mellorgolf

Don't get me wrong, I will be entering the fact that the machine wasn't working as my defence although from previous reply this appears that this will not to be enough to defend against the claim, I will also contest signage despite the fact that I obviously knew it was a Pay & Display car park. I'll just have to wait and see. Believe me this is a genuine case & I have County Court Claim papers from Northampton. The exact figures of the Claim amount are: £160.30, (Made up of original fee £100 + £54 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Term and Conditions + £6.30 Statutory Interest) Court fee £25.00, Legal representative costs £50.00. Total amount £235.30.

Coupon-mad

So like other cases with similar claims then. The defence includes pointing out that no 'legal costs' of £50 have ever been incurred and even if they have they were not stated on the signs so cannot have formed part of the contract. As for the ''+ £54 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Term and Conditions'' what level of drivel is that?!

The amounts over the £100 are penalties and unrecoverable, not part of any contract. And if the single P&D machine isn't working and the signs do not tell you to 'park elsewhere/go away' or take any other action (such as phone a number to report it or pay by phone) then their failure has made it impossible for a driver to perform the contract, nor offered any alternative terms or method paying the tariff.

This case might help, as I do now believe you are genuine:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016_02_01_archive.html

It's not about a faulty machine but mentions the fact that two names were on the signs and the words were unreadable. So a person might well know about the tariff but could never have learnt about the £100 until it was too late. VCS signs are VERY wordy. Get some pictures of the signs, the entrance and the view and info at the machine that was there (not the new second machine).

Complain to the landowner too, do some research or pay Land Registry £3 for the owner.

Show us your draft defence. You will find lots of UKPC and CEL ones from March - read them! Adapt them.

Can you please remove your hasty sentence 'conclusion' making 2 + 2 =5, where you wrongly said on this forum, to newbies who might be reading this 'Conclusion:- If you get a Private Parking Charge Notice pay it.'

Mellorgolf

Thanks for support, note hasty post edited. I will draft my defence over the next few days. Note there were no signs that I could see at the time just a pay machine which I did photograph. You can still see the state of signage at the time on street view so have that captured. There was a number to phone around the side of the machine but this was only pointed out to me by the guy who had issued the ticket who was there when I returned to my car.

Mellorgolf

Ok here's my defence, although I have now found other instances where a out of order machine was not upheld as defence I can only try.

1. The single pay & display machine was out of order that morning, I am sure VCN will have relevant records.
2. There was no information in the information panel on the front of the machine regarding actions to be taken should the machine be out of order. I have picture.
3. There were no signs in the car park at all so no signs informing me what to do in the event that the pay machine was not working. I have pictures.
4. I left a note on my windscreen stating that the pay machine was out of order.
5. At the time I was using the car park on a daily basis and get my parking expenses reimbursed by my employer so have no benefit from not paying for parking.
6. On returning to my car the parking warden was in the car park and I pointed out my note on the windscreen, he told me that was no excuse as there was a sign on the side of the pay machine with a phone number to call to pay by phone or debit / credit card if you have no coins, I had not previously seen this and this information was not on the front of the machine and as in point 2 there are no signs in the car park.
7. Although a PCN had been issued I went to look at the sign on the side of the machine and noted that this was to make a payment to a company called excel who as far as I aware are not party to this case.
8. I had coins and was quite willing to pay for parking as I was doing on a daily basis before & after this date.
9. I have a company phone which cannot be used for making payments.
10. The claimant’s claim should be for £100 only.

Coupon-mad

That's not a defence. That's the story of excuses/what happened. Take out 'I went' and similar. Read other defences, you have missed loads of defence points you could rely upon, lack of signage, no standing. And you need to show how the case differs from the Beavis case because the lack of signs and broken machine means there was no offer, no exchange of consideration from both parties, no licence to park nor instructions otherwise to suggest any breach or other obligation applied, no agreement to pay £100.

You point #7 needs to be much stronger in terms of wording as it is VITAL that you show that there could be no contract with VCS.

Your point #3 contradicts point #7:

3. There were no signs in the car park at all

yes there were:

7. Although a PCN had been issued I went to look at the sign on the side of the machine and noted that this was to make a payment to a company called excel who as far as I aware are not party to this case.

Where you say 'VCN' - change to VCS.

Please can we see the photos you mention in #2 and #3. Can't believe there were NO signs? We'd like to see the broken P&D machine too and the claim form (cover your name/address and PCN number and the claim number).

Is the claimant definitely VCS and is the claim filed by Gladstones or BW Legal, or who? How much is added for 'legal costs'?