MoneySaving Poll: How will you be voting in the EU referendum?

Disorganised_Me

My postal vote came through yesterday and I still don't know what side I'm on.

It's been interesting reading different view points, though a decision will have to be made soon.

I'm Scottish and am concerned about the implications of a 'leave' result and whether that would trigger another Scottish Independence Referendum. We know the SNP are pro-EU. That could be media scaremongering tho.....

Decisions, decisions and as always there is no clear impartial help to decide!

Can anyone point to some good sites for reading. It's an important decision and I want to make the right one for me with all available information.

Thanks.

PvyBaldrick

Have to echo what was posted earlier this, is by far the most civilised thread on the EU referendum in the entire Internet. There is another one in the MSE Investments & Banking Forum that is degenerating.

[FYI the vote percentages on that pole are different than this one...]

So to lower the tone... ;-)

It's a difficult referendum because no one knows fully what's going to happen.

One side says there are un-elected commissionaires running the show yet when you read into it they are very limited in what they can do, they are appointed by elected MEPs and the commission answers to the MEPs and can be disbanded by them with a simple vote. In fact if we get together 1 million votes then they will draft a law for us, they have to, it's called the European Citizen's Initiative. They are like senior civil servants.

Then on the other side we have doom of a leave will cost us £xxxx's, and the world will end, and MasterChef will be cancelled and...
Okay, yes with any major change there will be a downturn. Also we might see jobs move around as we potentially move our economy around to adjust. However we aren't going to die, we aren't going to be completely shafted.

All the other talking points have similar arguments for and against...

So what does it come down to in the end, well in my mind do you believe we should go it alone or continue with Europe?

Me personally, the EU has been around roughly for as long as I've been alive, and in my opinion it's done more good than bad, we do need to create a better world for our children and the best chance of that in my mind is in Europe which we can, if we treated it seriously, lead the way as the biggest economy in a few years.

Ho hum, sorry I'm an idealist guys. Anyway I've read all your comments, enjoyed them and hope you all have a great weekend!

Chris

PvyBaldrick

Disorganised_Me wrote: »

Can anyone point to some good sites for reading. It's an important decision and I want to make the right one for me with all available information.

Thanks.

BBC is quite good. Search for BBC Reality Check
FullFact dot org is good
InFacts dot org is biased towards Remain but the facts are good (Especially the bits where Remain have shot themselves in the foot)

Happy Reading...

Chris
PS Have a had a forum account for 7 years but rarely post so I still count as a new user and can't post links!

G6JPG

PvyBaldrick wrote: »

Have to echo what was posted earlier this, is by far the most civilised thread on the EU referendum in the entire Internet.

Agreed.

One side says there are un-elected commissionaires running the show yet when you read into it they are very limited in what they can do, they are appointed by elected MEPs and the commission answers to the MEPs and can be disbanded by them with a simple vote. In fact if we get together 1 million votes then they will draft a law for us, they have to, it's called the European Citizen's Initiative. They are like senior civil servants.

Yes, like Sir Humphrey

Then on the other side we have doom of a leave will cost us £xxxx's, and the world will end, and MasterChef will be cancelled and...

The main problem has, indeed, been that neither side has been willing to admit that things won't be perfect if we go their way.

Okay, yes with any major change there will be a downturn. Also we might see jobs move around as we potentially move our economy around to adjust. However we aren't going to die, we aren't going to be completely shafted.
[snip]
Me personally, the EU has been around roughly for as long as I've been alive, and in my opinion it's done more good than bad, we do need to create a better world for our children and the best chance of that in my mind is in Europe which we can, if we treated it seriously, lead the way as the biggest economy in a few years.

For me, I'm not sure how long the EU has been around, but we joined it when I was in my early teens (though what we jouned was [a] not what we were told we were joining very different from what it is now).

Ho hum, sorry I'm an idealist guys. Anyway I've read all your comments, enjoyed them and hope you all have a great weekend!

Chris

I like to think I am too: I happen to feel that we'd be better out, of what the EU currently is (and that staying in, even with the new agreement - I'm one of the few who has actually read it, and it is good; I just don't think their hearts are in it - won't change that much). I do think we - and, quite possibly, they - will be worse off in purely financial terms for a little while (two to three years would be my best guess), but idealism/altruism ... in the same way as I was in favour of the communuty charge ("poll tax"), even though I'd have been personally significantly worse off under it.

gupyuk

If you really knew how the EU worked you would've stood up and said something years ago about the unfair way GB is treated in relationship to other member states, If you want to see what's about to be unleashed on us when / if we stay try doing a little web searching for all the EU directives that have been put on hold until after the referendum for fear of them influencing a leave vote. The EU is BAD NEWS for the UK and woe betide us if we stay in you mark my words.
And I'm not trying to put the fear factor in here.. just you go and look it up, I found a dozen in 30 minutes and some of them are not going to sit well with the UK people.
Wake up people look at the things they AREN'T telling you, that's where the truth lies

VOTE OUT! for gods sake your sake and most of all our descendants sakes.

HanSpan

gupyuk
I'm sorry but that sounds EXACTLY like a load of scaremongering.
Basically it reads as "something awful will happen based on something written in nameless places you can find via an unspecified google search."

If you want to convince anyone of anything then quote specifics.

gupyuk

It appears as a new user I am not allowed to post links here - Ridiculous!
So you will have to put the following into Google and search for yourself.

EU plans to fit all cars with speed limiters Telegraph website
EU law “threatens UK's traditional ice cream” eurofoodlaw dot com
EU ports regulation could hold back UK ports including the £300m Liverpool2 facility
Liverpoolecho dot co dot uk
Muzzling Brussels: Why EU Leaders Aren't Debating Brexit - spiegel dot de/international/europe/why-eu-leaders-are-not-speaking-out-about-brexit-a-1094261.html
EU army plans ‘kept secret’ from British voters until after Brexit referendum
rt dot com/uk/344563-eu-army-secret-referendum/
Dirty Campaign to Stop Brit EU Exit: Refugee Deluge, Interrogating Schoolkids, Hiding Tax Hikes - the new american dot com/world-news/europe/item/22650-dirty-campaign-to-stop-brit-eu-exit-refugee-deluge-interrogating-schoolkids-hiding-tax-hikes?tmpl=component&amp%3Bprint=1
Brexit threat saves our super-fast kettles: Brussels shelves ban on powerful appliances after British negotiators warn it could sway referendum
daily mail dot co dot uk/news/article-3466653/Brexit-threat-saves-super-fast-kettles.html
Something to hide? Brussels bosses delay plans for next EU budget until AFTER Brexit vote - express dot co dot uk/news/politics/670099/EU-referendum-European-Commission-delays-EU-budget-proposals-after-Brexit-vote
Brussels presses the hold button on Brexit - politico dot eu/article/brussels-presses-brexit-hold-button-uk-referendum-campaign-eu-legislation/

I do not believe in scare tactics from either side, it is completely wrong and I will never stoop that low. The people of the UK have a basic right to the correct information without any perversion of the truth, the links above are from as varied a source as possible so as not to be particularly biased either way, they are genuine articles from respectable sources.
And if that isn't enough, consider this......

"There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future"
These are not my words but definitely my views.

gupyuk

remove the spaces in the h t t p bit for the link

h t t p://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/EU-leaflet-548642.jpg[/IMG]

G6JPG

gupyuk wrote: »

remove the spaces in the h t t p bit for the link

h t t p://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/EU-leaflet-548642.jpg[/IMG]

You will find, if you read his newsletters, that he did not give permission to the campaign for them to use his words.

gupyuk

Oh,
Sorry,
I don't get his newsletters.
However, I am pretty sure they would not Lie about things like that?
Would they?