The EU: IN or OUT?

Glen_Clark

bigadaj wrote: »

Interesting guardian article stating that the eu may be offering a 7 year derogation on free movement to the uk, if those already here are allowed to remain.

As well as assuaging some fears about immigration it is also a painful reminder of how British politicians failed to plan in 2004. This was the option available, taken up by many countries when the Eastern European countries joined, but ignored by labour at that time.

To many in the uk this failure by Blair is of more importance to them than his ill guided ventures in Iraq.

Immigration drives down wages and drives up house prices, both of which seem to suit the British Establishment, so they have long taken a half hearted attitude to restricting immigration.

talexuser

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

This is a very interesting article

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/lawrence-solomon-brexit-was-the-u-k-s-vote-against-a-new-socialist-empire

Not very convincing for me. You could just as much argue the US is a combination of small countries with completely different outlooks subjugated under federal government forcing measures on them to be uniform. But the rules are there to create an economic powerhouse, and the EU free trade area has the same aim. The EU problem is political union which many, probably most, do not want. But the vitriol in the US elections so far does not paint a picture of a country at ease with itself either.

MrBeans

bigadaj wrote: »

Interesting guardian article stating that the eu may be offering a 7 year derogation on free movement to the uk, if those already here are allowed to remain.

This is an example of how we have become so subjugated to the EU that we now think it's reasonable for the EU to be granting us favours like this.

No more. When we're out we will decide.

BananaRepublic

talexuser wrote: »

Not very convincing for me. You could just as much argue the US is a combination of small countries with completely different outlooks subjugated under federal government forcing measures on them to be uniform.

You could if you wanted to be wrong. I take it you've never been to the States? So much of it is identical, or as good as.

BananaRepublic

Glen_Clark wrote: »

Immigration drives down wages and drives up house prices, both of which seem to suit the British Establishment, so they have long taken a half hearted attitude to restricting immigration.

It also suits big business. I do wonder if the EU is really driven by big business, multi-national corporations needing cheap labour and free movement of goods. In the past I have not seen much 'grass roots' involvement in EU laws, apart from protecting small scale French agriculture of course, but I guess that is a historical trend.

Thrugelmir

talexuser wrote: »

But the vitriol in the US elections so far does not paint a picture of a country at ease with itself either.

The ethnic breakdown of the US has changed. With it comes different politics. Like the UK. The main parties no longer seem so relevant.

Arthurian

bigadaj wrote: »

Interesting guardian article stating that the eu may be offering a 7 year derogation on free movement to the uk, if those already here are allowed to remain.

I thought we were supposed to have voted 'for once and all' - not for the next 7 years only. So people who voted for their children and grandchildren to be out of an Orwellian superstate, and who were willing to live through a few bumpy years to achieve that, are supposed to be willing to accept this because, hey, it's a whole 7 years away yet. Do they think people who voted to leave have the attention span of a goldfish? I wonder what else they'll propose, to be brought back in after a few years?

bigadaj

Arthurian wrote: »

I thought we were supposed to have voted 'for once and all' - not for the next 7 years only. So people who voted for their children and grandchildren to be out of an Orwellian superstate, and who were willing to live through a few bumpy years to achieve that, are supposed to be willing to accept this because, hey, it's a whole 7 years away yet. Do they think people who voted to leave have the attention span of a goldfish? I wonder what else they'll propose, to be brought back in after a few years?

People voted in or out for a range of reasons.

If the facts change then so does my opinion, would assume it's the same for most people, the whole problem with immigration, or that perceived by many people, is that the uk government failed to exercise its option to limit numbers years ago.

talexuser

BananaRepublic wrote: »

I take it you've never been to the States?.

I have, we had business contacts in Texas and New York State and the attitudes we met did not seem to have that much in common.

Glen_Clark

BananaRepublic wrote: »

It also suits big business. I do wonder if the EU is really driven by big business, multi-national corporations needing cheap labour and free movement of goods. In the past I have not seen much 'grass roots' involvement in EU laws, apart from protecting small scale French agriculture of course, but I guess that is a historical trend.

It suits business to have younger cheaper immigrant workers. But when that displaces older British workers on to benefits there is a cost to be paid