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Psychic readings

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  • Jagraf
    Jagraf Posts: 2,462 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    NewShadow wrote: »
    Blegh.

    The trouble is, there's too much evidence out there and almost no facts.

    We don't have a unified theory (see what I did there:p) to explain much of anything from an astro or meta physics view.

    The idea that it's ghosts is about as plausible as anything else...

    For example. Light. We all know it exists.

    The double slit experiment supports the theory of light bouncing of 'something' we can't see.

    This is the basis for the early experiments into antimatter, dark energy, dark matter - all the stuff that physics believes must exist, but can't prove (basically at all)

    Some have used this experiment and the assumption of the existence of this 'stuff' (which is completely unmeasurable in any way...) to argue the many worlds theory (which is not completely scientifically or philosophically bupkis) and furthermore to evidence energy can leak across these worlds (which is what the light bounces off) .

    If you sub (as some do) many worlds for afterlife (i.e., our energy or soul slips between 'worlds' at death), you get a scientifically valid (possible) argument for the possibility of the existence of 'spirits'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

    Additional reading of interest may include:

    Dark matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

    Dark energy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

    A dozen peer reviewed (if a little soft science) articles on why the theory of relativity doesn't work in space/with quantum physics: https://www.newscientist.com/round-up/challenging-einstein/

    Study providing evidence of out of body experiences - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largest-ever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-near-death-experiences-9780195.html

    Peer reviewed book, by one of the most prominent scientists in the field of stem cell biology, - discussing that life after death is very plausible - http://www.robertlanza.com/biocentrism-how-life-and-consciousness-are-the-keys-to-understanding-the-true-nature-of-the-universe/

    Peer reviewed study from Cornel university suggesting some have some psychic powers (precognition)- http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/12/study-looks-brains-ability-see-future


    Functionally - Science doesn't have the answers - no more than spiritualism does.

    Quantum physics says the theory of gravity is wrong - Doesn't mean we're all going to go flying off into space, but it does mean we can believe a force (previously understood to be gravity) is keeping us attracted to the ground.

    There's just no scientifically verifiable evidence (given empirical observation doesn't seem to count :rotfl:)

    Possibly the best post ive ever read.
    Never again will the wolf get so close to my door :eek:
  • cyantist
    cyantist Posts: 560 Forumite
    ElefantEd wrote: »

    Empirical evidence is the only thing that counts - the theory is there to explain it and to make predictions about other situations. But ultimately evidence is the bedrock of the scientific method.

    There is plenty of evidence for gravity. There is none for pyschic abilities.

    There is anecdotal evidence though. This obviously doesn't provide proof but is a type of evidence nonetheless. Scientific publications often don't provide proof. If you conduct an experiment and get a P value of less than 0.01, most people would be pretty pleased with those results. Yet that means there's a 1% chance that it all happened due to chance.

    While there is no empirical evidence that psychic abilities exist, there is also no empirical evidence that they don't.
  • Person_one
    Person_one Posts: 28,884 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    cyantist wrote: »
    While there is no empirical evidence that psychic abilities exist, there is also no empirical evidence that they don't.

    That statement shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how evidence works though. You can't prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist, its a logical impossibility.

    I have a pet dragon, he is invisible but very friendly. Can you prove he doesn't exist? Can anybody? How?

    Have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
  • BarryBlue
    BarryBlue Posts: 4,179 Forumite
    ElefantEd wrote: »
    The double slit experiment in no way implies that light is 'bouncing off' something - just that it is acting as a wave (even when there is just one photon passing through the slits at a time).

    Nor does quantum mechanics say the theory of gravity is 'wrong', just that there is more to it than it was first believed, and scientists are searching for evidence of gravitons as the exchange particles. In the same way special relativity didn't prove Newtonian mechanics wrong, it refined it. But Newton's laws are perfectly valid at velocities which are only a fraction of light speed. Tying up relativity with quantum mechanics is a huge challenge but it doesn't mean either theory is wrong, just not complete.

    Empirical evidence is the only thing that counts - the theory is there to explain it and to make predictions about other situations. But ultimately evidence is the bedrock of the scientific method.

    There is plenty of evidence for gravity. There is none for pyschic abilities.
    I'm with you here. The standard argument from those desperate to believe is that you can't believe it doesn't exist. We are then back to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There is no reason to try and disprove a ludicrous assertion, just wait for the ones asserting it to give it some credibility. It's usually a long wait......

    It's rather like someone saying 'prove god doesn't exist'. The reply is that they presumably don't believe in allah, Zeus or the FSM. Let them disprove the existence of any of those, then I'll use your method.;)
    :dance:We're gonna be alright, dancin' on a Saturday night:dance:
  • cyantist
    cyantist Posts: 560 Forumite
    Person_one wrote: »
    That statement shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how evidence works though. You can't prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist, its a logical impossibility.

    I have a pet dragon, he is invisible but very friendly. Can you prove he doesn't exist? Can anybody? How?

    Have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

    I am aware of this, and the link you posted.

    But lets say he does exist, how can you prove it? Even if 10 other people could see him, that's not proof. Which is why in most cases it would be impossible to prove that you have these abilities, even if you do.

    I have seen first hand examples of these abilities. Until anyone can give me a reasonable explanation for any of them, I am going to believe what I have seen and heard personally.
  • Person_one
    Person_one Posts: 28,884 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    cyantist wrote: »
    I am aware of this, and the link you posted.

    But lets say he does exist, how can you prove it? Even if 10 other people could see him, that's not proof.

    If 10 other people could see him that would be good evidence though, if there were photographs of him, if he showed up on heat detectors, if you could get a blood sample. All that would be great evidence he existed and totally possible to get if he did in fact exist.

    He doesn't exist though, how can you prove to me that he doesn't if I am convinced he does? What will you use as evidence?

    You can't prove my dragon doesn't exist, and I can't prove psychic abilities don't exist. That's because neither of them actually exist! Things that do exist leave evidence, where is the evidence that psychic abilities exist (and it can't just be 'I think they do' because all the evidence I have for my dragon too!)
  • Andypandyboy
    Andypandyboy Posts: 2,472 Forumite
    Anecdotal evidence is qualitiative though. If enough people are convinced of something then that, in itself, is "evidential".
  • Person_one
    Person_one Posts: 28,884 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Anecdotal evidence is qualitiative though. If enough people are convinced of something then that, in itself, is "evidential".

    Its a starting to point to test the theory further perhaps, but its not great evidence.

    If 50 people who don't know each other all say they saw a red bus drive down their street, I'd probably believe them. Red buses do demonstrably exist, sometimes they go to unexpected places.

    If 50 people who don't know each other all say they saw a psychic communicate with the dead, I would believe that's what they thought they saw, but the human 'psychic' is not a straightforward object to be observed, they are active in the situation, I'd want to see some more quantifiable evidence before I believed.
  • cyantist
    cyantist Posts: 560 Forumite
    edited 27 May 2016 at 2:58PM
    Person_one wrote: »
    If 10 other people could see him that would be good evidence though, if there were photographs of him, if he showed up on heat detectors, if you could get a blood sample. All that would be great evidence he existed and totally possible to get if he did in fact exist.

    He doesn't exist though, how can you prove to me that he doesn't if I am convinced he does? What will you use as evidence?

    You can't prove my dragon doesn't exist, and I can't prove psychic abilities don't exist. That's because neither of them actually exist! Things that do exist leave evidence, where is the evidence that psychic abilities exist (and it can't just be 'I think they do' because all the evidence I have for my dragon too!)

    If hes invisible how would you know there aren't photos of him? That's a minor point though, and not an argument I would use to show your dragon exists.

    The evidence isn't that 'I think they do'. The evidence is that there are facts that someone knows and there is no reasonable explanation for how they could know these things. There are numerous other people who state the same thing about this person.

    In fact a few years ago I would have been firmly in the 'psychic abilities do not exist' camp. But I have seen evidence that they do, it's evidence that has changed my mind and I base my opinions on evidence. Just because you haven't seen that evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have posted here loads giving details of this evidence and no one has suggested any possible alternative theory.
  • Andypandyboy
    Andypandyboy Posts: 2,472 Forumite
    I imagine it is something that you only believe in if it happens to you and you are able to critically evaluate it to your own satisfaction.
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