My E7/Heating solution!

System

newmy wrote: »

Isn't that a seperate rating? This is the info you get for each Quantum heater, this for the QM150:

Output Rating 1500W
Input Rating 3300W
Max Storage Capacity 23.1kWh
Boost Element Rating 1300W

So yes that makes sense, maximum storage capacity is 3.3kW x 7 as you say, I'm guessing this makes it comparible to a simple storage heater of the same rating? The 1.3kW boost element rating must be the conventional (emergency top up) heater element, so I'm now assuming that the 1.5kW output is the amount of heat it would kick out every hour from stored heat? Please forgive me, physics was never a strong point!



In this instance I could run the risk of running out of stored heat I think. I suppose a fairer comparison would be two Quantum QM150 vs 2 traditional storage heaters with the same stored heat capacity. In each case, calculations suggest I'd have over the requirement of stored heat for the room (I think I need a combined total of just over 5kW stored per hour), the main variable being the superior control/programming offered by the Quantum. I.e I can tell it when I'm at work, at home all day, I can turn them offif we have a warmer day etc...whereas traditional type storage heaters don't discriminate on what is happening and just give out heat all day.

Hmm. Need to make a decision soon, the more research I do the more unsure I become.

I know you have said you could run the risk, but iv had different storage heaters before and they did run out of heat it cost me a lot more using a convector heater for when the heat ran out.

Could you not get 2 big storage heaters like I have in my lounge they are both 3.4kw I have never needed them to be on full and they never run out of heat, I've also never need to open the vent for heat, unlike my previous storage heaters.

Using a top heat is really expensive, I would install the switch and save up a little more as I think it's better to be using cheap e7 rate instead of the normal day rate.

And if you do get bigger as I think it's best at least you can always turn them up if needed

The storage heaters I have in lounge are dimplex xlsn

matelodave

You can always reduce the amount of heat that you use if the heaters are a bit oversized. You can't increase it if they are too small.

System

Oh and it's also worth asking the council or whoever owns the building if they are planning any heating upgrades, as my housing has installed district heating in 6 of there blocks and the tenants pay direct to them for all heating and hot water.

Fingers crossed they get to my block as that's the best heating, works out 6.66 on top of your rent, where I live any way.

jk0

I have fought shy of Quantum, as they rely on blowers to release the heat. I think that would make my eyes dry.

Regarding small bedroom heating, someone suggested a timeswitch for a storage hater. This would be a great idea, as you could just heat on days you are working from home.

BTW, have you considered getting second hand storage heaters from ebay? I get loads for my rental flats.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Generally unless you are an owner and can recoup the up front investment, don't install anything you can't take with you. NSH have a lifespan of in excess of 60 years with little or no maintenance. Panel and others are portable, lightweight, slim wall hugging and have a long half life unless they are underpowered when installed and run full belt with no relief. Fan and convected are the same thing. Oil filled just take longer to heat and correspondingly longer to cool. Two 2kW NS is better than one 4kW NS - or - any other heater.

A good stat[ed] and timer panel with a high enough output 2-3kW to heat a room quickly will always do the job for bedrooms, kitchens etc. The low output ones need to be on for a long time to make enough space heat and permanently to maintain that heat. Radiation is always better than convection particularly if flats which at 6 or more stories are probobly going to be absorbing 10" concrete slabs which are of themselves storage heaters - good if you are above a well heated flat - bad if you are convecting heat straight to the ceiling. Far Infra panels are costly, portable and very effective on line-of-sight.

Just one additional 1.7 small NS heater in the living [90% of your time] area will top up your cheap stored heat to about 35kWh [11.9+23.8=35.7]. What you don't use today does not need topping up that night.

newmy

mackemps3 wrote: »

I know you have said you could run the risk, but iv had different storage heaters before and they did run out of heat it cost me a lot more using a convector heater for when the heat ran out.

Could you not get 2 big storage heaters like I have in my lounge they are both 3.4kw I have never needed them to be on full and they never run out of heat, I've also never need to open the vent for heat, unlike my previous storage heaters.

Oh no, I was referring to an example given previously of using one large storage heater and a panel heater for top up - in that scenario I'd run the risk of running out of the cheaper stuff and rely on expensive stuff for heat in the evening. Not something I want to be doing really!

mackemps3 wrote: »

Oh and it's also worth asking the council or whoever owns the building if they are planning any heating upgrades, as my housing has installed district heating in 6 of there blocks and the tenants pay direct to them for all heating and hot water.

It's a freehold company that all flat owners have a share in. There's plans to replace the roof imminently, which will presumably give some improved insulation. Windows should be upgraded to new double glazed units in next 1-2 years, and I did also read of a plan for external insulation cladding to the outside of the block. Though this was planned to have been under the now defunct green deal, so I think this is probably on the back burner for now sadly.

jk0 wrote: »

I have fought shy of Quantum, as they rely on blowers to release the heat. I think that would make my eyes dry.

Regarding small bedroom heating, someone suggested a timeswitch for a storage hater. This would be a great idea, as you could just heat on days you are working from home.

BTW, have you considered getting second hand storage heaters from ebay? I get loads for my rental flats.

Thanks. I didn't consider the fan thing, though from what I've read it's pretty gentle, but a point of note nonetheless.
The study will back on to the wall where one of the large heaters in the living space will be, so I'm thinking this could help keep the room sufficiently warm, but that's a good point you re-iterate on the small storage heater on timer switch. Also there's not many 2nd hand storage heaters nearby me on ebay, and certainly no Quantums!

newmy

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

A good stat[ed] and timer panel with a high enough output 2-3kW to heat a room quickly will always do the job for bedrooms, kitchens etc. The low output ones need to be on for a long time to make enough space heat and permanently to maintain that heat. Radiation is always better than convection particularly if flats which at 6 or more stories are probobly going to be absorbing 10" concrete slabs which are of themselves storage heaters - good if you are above a well heated flat - bad if you are convecting heat straight to the ceiling. Far Infra panels are costly, portable and very effective on line-of-sight.

Good to know about going for high rated panels in the bedrooms for more effective heating.

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Just one additional 1.7 small NS heater in the living [90% of your time] area will top up your cheap stored heat to about 35kWh [11.9+23.8=35.7]. What you don't use today does not need topping up that night.

Presumably not such a good idea if the main heater is a Quantum, or even an automatic storage heater? Wouldn't the leaked heat during the night from one standard storage heater affect the level of stored heat taken by the Quantum or an auto storage heater? As it thinks things are warmer than they actually are? Or am I missing the point on how they work

Richie-from-the-Boro

25/24 On demand would be panel, fire, infra, convector, grannies two bar etc where it is switched on when needed, and off when not. A room or a whole dwelling starts each cycle at say 14°C and needs to be brought to your preferred 22°C each use at full price rate.

182/24 Night Store Heating would be a previously banked cheap store of space and heated water. It starts in the winter and takes about a month to pre-heat the room after which the living room is at an ambient 20°C when the cheap rate switches off and you are left with about 35kWh of stored cheap space heating plus a tank full of water heated to 65°C. The stored 35kWh of cheap heat then radiates into the environment over the next 17 hours at 2kW per hour.

The facts are that :

- in an electric only, NSH is the cheapest
- the [fabric] storage is your ceiling, floor, drapes, sideboard, plaster board, bricks and even your dog
- in an electric only you have two choices, cheap stored or use expensive 'on demand'
- I did not introduce Quantum to the thread, the O/P did
- Quantum's remarkable insulating quality and its 13a 'top up' is a truth, it does work compared to others
- NS set up properly does not leak, it radiates a 'top up' to maintain the chosen °C
- "leaked heat" during the night is good - its precisely that that pre-stores heat into the fabric of the room

So seeing it as a 24 hour on demand cycle is the wrong way to look at it. If any NSH never 'leaked' then you would still have a store of cheap heat but would need four or so big night store heaters to raise the room to from 14°C to 22°C and maintain that 22°C for 7 hours. After which the room would reduce from 22°C all the way down to 14°C and you would have to start from 14°C again.

Not everyone agrees with me, and that's fine. Many believe that a NSH should have the 'flap' opened and every single candle-power of energy used and empty before midnight, then let it re-charge. There are different ways of doing it.

I like comfortable heating and 22°C minimum, the concept of a summer off winter on NS cheap space and water heating and bill paying suits me. It's a relatively cheap electric only, almost zero intervention, almost zero maintenance over 50 years delivery of 22°-23°C. You decide how you want to do it there are others ways.

The O/P mentioned in a # number the fact that the cheap rate was running during the day. Check your :

- tariff name ?
- cheapest tariff available ?
- E7 or are you in fact the more expensive [on during the day] E10 ?
- are you on an exotic Scottish tied tariff ?
- are you named on the Meter Point Administration Number or are on a 'deemed contract' ?
- submit meter reading per every 6 weeks ?
- pay ± annual costs ÷ 12 evens out the payments and mitigates the accounting bots taking a surplus from you !

Best of luck.

lstar337

newmy wrote: »

I am now, after reading this post back and looking through the forum again, considering going Quantum. I've found the highest rating one at not much more than the heater I'd originally planned for my main room. My current budget can cover this, but I'll just have to save over the next few months to add a second on the opposite side of the room.

This is always good practice, because you may find (in spite of all the maths), that you can manage perfectly fine with one heater anyway.

newmy wrote: »

A related but slightly different point - whilst I've not moved in yet, I've been in the flat at various times during the day and have noticed the meter flick over to the low rate at about midday, then noticed it's flicked back at about 7pm. The E7 seems to be taking affect during the wrong 12-7. I'm guessing I need to speak with my supplier about this as presumably there's something wrong with the radio teleswitch?

It'll likely be a timer that has drifted over time. Suppliers are rarely interested, and it will work in your favour anyway. Any low rate electric that you get in the day will only be a bonus. Your storage heating will benefit as it will not have to store the heat so long!

newmy

lstar337 wrote: »

This is always good practice, because you may find (in spite of all the maths), that you can manage perfectly fine with one heater anyway.

It'll likely be a timer that has drifted over time. Suppliers are rarely interested, and it will work in your favour anyway. Any low rate electric that you get in the day will only be a bonus. Your storage heating will benefit as it will not have to store the heat so long!

Thanks. I can see this being a benefit with traditional storage heaters for sure, but my concern on this point is that Quantum seems to be specifically set around the low rate heating being at night, what with its "out all day", "in all day" settings etc...If I'm in all day will it actually allow me to output heat at the same time as it's charging for instance? And similarly, if I tell it I'm in all day won't it automatically assume that the end of the charging period (usually 7am, but 7pm in my case) is the morning, and then keep the place warm all night instead? Its smart features then become a little less useful...

It's also somewhat annoying because I will be using a panel heater in my bedroom which, if the E7 timings were correct, would only run on the low rate in the morning as on work days I'm up and out the house by about 07.15. With it running from midday-7pm this wouldn't be the case.

I'll get onto my supplier and see if they'll do anything, though I appreciate this is unlikely.