purchased vehicle with a dodgy MOT :(

Silver-Surfer_2

straighttalker wrote: »

Cheers Silver Surfer. I stand corrected!

I'd still contend that the seller of this horse box wouldn't be prosecuted under the RTA. In fact, I've not seen any evidence of successful prosecutions of private sellers under the same provisions.

Do you frequent magistrates courts often?

straighttalker

Not really but surely there would be some reported cases in the motoring press?

Joe_Horner

straighttalker wrote: »

I've never heard of this before. Can you point me in the right direction as to where this law is contained?

Certainly:

Road Traffic Act 1988 c.52 Part II S.75 "Vehicles not to be sold in unroadworthy condition or altered so as to be unroadworthy."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

ss.5 of that section creates a strict liability offence of supplying (including selling) a motor vehicle in an unroadworthy condition. because it's strict liability, knowledge or otherwise of the condition is irrelevant - it's either roadworthy or it's not. If it's not then the offence is committed.

There are two statutory defences allowed by ss. 6(a) and (b) but neither of them relate to knowledge of any defects, only to whether or not the seller thought the vehicle would be used on UK roads without being repaired.

straighttalker wrote: »

According to you, if a granny with no knowledge of cars or mechanics whatsoever sells a car privately with lets say a broken suspension spring, she would be guilty of a criminal offence notwithstanding the fact that she didn't know of the defect nor could she reasonably expected to know.

Yes, that's exactly right. Granny would be guilty of the S.75 offence. Whether or not it would be in the public interest to mount a prosecution is another matter - lots of offences are committed every day that are never prosecuted. But that doesn't mean they're not being committed.

straighttalker wrote: »

I'd suggest that you're spouting rubbish.

You can suggest that all you like, the references above show that I'm not.

straighttalker wrote: »

This is cut and pasted from the which.co.uk website:

[snipped for tidiness]

The following is cut and pasted from the AA's own suggested contract for a private car sale:

[snipped for tidiness]

Both those links are based on current consumer protection law only. They don't consider other law that might also have a bearing. You always have potential comeback in a contract where the other party acted illegally in forming it - whether they sell you a stolen car (though good luck getting your money back in practice) or one that's dangerous / unroadworthy.

straighttalker wrote: »

The long and short of it is if you buy privately you're on your own with little protection. The only time you have any comeback is if the seller specifically misrepresents something i.e. they say it's had 2 owners when in fact its had 17.

In this case, unless the seller has written an ad saying the horse box is in brand new condition with no wear and tear and is 100% as new, the buyer has no recourse against them. Whether the MOT was done properly or not is an issue to be taken between the DVSA and MOT testing station.

If people want consumer protection, suck it up and pay the premium for buying from a dealership. If you're buying privately, you're on your own.

No, that's the short of it.

The long of it is that it's really not that simple because laws other than SOGA / CRA can be involved in some circumstances and those laws can create rights that consumer legislation doesn't. This is potentially one of those circumstances.

ester83

ooh you've all been busy on my drive home and yes ester is a girl surely only girls buy horseboxes?!
yes 3K van.
Budgeted 1k ish to sort out the cam belt, give it a full service, put 2 new tyres on it, and sort out the as yet cosmetic rust down both sides, and mend the screen/demister fan so I could use it on a cold morning and a bit in hand for any other minorish niggles.

In addition to this it now has an estimate of approx £1150 work to do

= 2150 work total. = 5150 van total.

As it stands will wait for the vosa inspection as that will be deciding factor, particularly if they say not roadworthy.
Have spoken to a chap who inspects for a living who saw it for a client before me and he said that most of the issues were wear and tear 50:50 fails but also :shocked: that no advisories when he looked underneath. He advised not to purchase based on the condition rear springs that had already had a less than good repair on them and that the box might be used to carry 2horses (1100kg payload) He did say it isn't without it's good points so has made me feel a bit better and that actually if I got the crucial work done I might not be hugely out of pocket. He did mention a other things and what he says he told the seller does not match up with what I was told he said (although I obviously took it with a pinch of salt). In hindsight should have rung him before purchase but felt wrong asking for the results of someone else's inspection! In hindsight should have thought it odd that such an old vehicle has passed with virtually no advisories for the last 3 years and should have got it MOTd again down there. All good in hindsight

Lomast

ester83 wrote: »

In hindsight should have thought it odd that such an old vehicle has passed with virtually no advisories for the last 3 years and should have got it MOTd again down there. All good in hindsight

The problem is that advisories are a non mandatory part of the MOT tesing and it us up to the tester/ test station how they deal with advisories, I regularily use two MOT stations one issues advisories that can go on for pages the other station i have only ever seen issue one advisory for a tyre that was very very nearly illegal (not my car i hasten to add just one i had to do some welding on)

Strider590

I don't think any of these things have a valid MOT, i've yet to see one that's not bellowing out clouds of soot and can barely reach 20mph.

straighttalker

So is it roadworthy then or not?

Marktheshark

How you getting it back from the MOT appeal station ?
They don't do storage and it wont have an MOT.

bigjl

Getting VOSA involved will only end in tears.

If it has been inspected and the person said it wasn't too bad but has some wear and tear then why worry about what a Garage said when trying to fish for work.

You don't get much Horsebox for £3k.

It is old and will never be perfect.

davemorton

Marktheshark wrote: »

How you getting it back from the MOT appeal station ?
They don't do storage and it wont have an MOT.

Can you not drive it back from an MOT?