Carphone - Locked or not

d123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Thank you for your comments. I have bought a number of PAYG phones in the past from CPW and all of them have been unlocked.

However, the sales guy was adamant that if I bought the handset with a Virgin sim, then it would be locked to Virgin but he could put it on any other network and it would be unlocked.

This is the point I am seeking clarification on.

Whenever I buy a cheap phone from CPW I buy the phone with the cheapest PAYG sim they offer. I never mention it's going to be used with another sim and have had them with a Virgin sim in the past (last one about 3 months ago). They have never been different or locked.

Guys_Dad

Kim_13 wrote: »

I don't know for certain, but I'm inclined to think that it's rubbish, at least the way he put it across. That's what I suspected.

It sounds as though there were three prices offered by this salesman: Sim free price, sim free less £30 (with any network other than Virgin) or sim free less £40 (Virgin.) Is this correct? Or correct that there were effectively three prices and you were persuaded into going for the middle one? Correct

When buying PAYG phones from Carphone Warehouse, unless they've changed the rules, I've never left the shop without the assistant setting up the phone. They seem to do this without you asking, as it's the way that the phone is locked to the relevant network. The PAYG sim is in the box with the phone and by inserting it, effectively it locks the phone at the till. In my case, we put the current sim in the handset, tested it worked (after paying) and the EE sim is still in the packet! The phone is NOT locked to my son's sim (Tesco network) as we have tried with another sim, so it is, in fact, unlocked

Since the phones with sims are subsidised (though as you say, to a greater extent on Virgin), surely the terms of that subsidy is that the staff lock the phones to the chosen network? Otherwise they wouldn't offer the sim free version at a higher price. But I have never had a locked phone bought on PAYG from CPM - they have all been unlocked.

So it seems as though the guy was acting as though he was willing to 'bend the rules' for the £10 extra (though presumably you then selected the PAYG option for your son's network, so no rules were actually bent, as the phone is instead locked to your son's network, which is what the PAYG version is designed to do.) No, selected EE as CPW don't sell Tesco network.

That said, had he let you leave the shop without the sim actually going into the phone then I'd say that's technically him breaking the rules, though if you'd stated what network your son is on, presumably he wasn't bothered as the phone was going to end up locked to that network. Choosing another network at the same price that isn't your son's would also technically break the rules, but that would be financially pointless and you'll never know what he'd have come out with if you'd pushed for that option. If you did this because your son's network wasn't offered, then technically he has broken rules but extracted an extra £10 before breaking rules (the rules apply to all PAYG phones.)

I agree with the above poster though, you should ask another staff member to find out for certain. Actually, I bought myself a handset from CPW in January on PAYG. I have an O2 contract, but bought mine with a £10 EE sim. The salesman then tried to tell me the same tale about it being locked to the network. But I said I would have it anyway. It works with O2, Tesco, EE and Vodafone too no bother.

Thanks for your help. I reckon that the handsets must be unlocked and it was just to get the extra £10 that CPW spun that tale.

Guys_Dad

d123 wrote: »

Whenever I buy a cheap phone from CPW I buy the phone with the cheapest PAYG sim they offer. I never mention it's going to be used with another sim and have had them with a Virgin sim in the past (last one about 3 months ago). They have never been different or locked.

Unless things have changed since your Virgin PAYG purchase, that's what I will do next time. :beer:

d123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Unless things have changed since your Virgin PAYG purchase, that's what I will do next time. :beer:

Having a quick look at their website I doubt anything as changed.

Our phones are unlocked!

Most of the phones we sell aren't locked to a network, including almost all of our SIM free phones. That means you can put any UK SIM card into your phone and enjoy the benefits of whichever UK network you prefer.

Exceptions

iPhone is unlocked when you buy it SIM free but Apple's software means it locks to the first network you use it with. To find out about a particular model or using your phone abroad, ask in store or give us a call on 0870 087 0870.

No exception listed for Virgin.

pmduk

Guys_Dad wrote: »

So you don't know the answer to my specific question?

Nowadays I usually upgrade the phone using my existing SIM as it's the cheapest option. In the past, I've often bought the PAYG phone and changed the SIM, but I can't categorically state that the policy hasn't changed - but it seems unlikely to me.

Ian011

If a handset has a network logo on the casing or on the packaging it came in, or shows a network logo when it is first switched on, then it will be locked to that network. Some shops (i.e. those run by a particular network) sell these phones SIM-free, i.e. without a SIM, but they are still locked to the network.

Independent retailers also sell SIM-free phones. These are usually not locked to any particular network, and sold at a discounted price when sold with a SIM and first top-up. The discount is possible because the retailers get commission from the network once the phone and SIM have been used for a while.

Where customers buy the phone, dump the SIM and put their own SIM in, the retailer is not paid. Most handsets have a PIN-protected option to pair a particular SIM-card with the handset. This is the option that will be used when the phone is to be sold on a particular deal and it is obvious that that the customer is, as far as the retailer is concerned, pulling a fast one.

d123

Ian011 wrote: »

If a handset has a network logo on the casing or on the packaging it came in, or shows a network logo when it is first switched on, then it will be locked to that network. Some shops (i.e. those run by a particular network) sell these phones SIM-free, i.e. without a SIM, but they are still locked to the network.

Independent retailers also sell SIM-free phones. These are usually not locked to any particular network, and sold at a discounted price when sold with a SIM and first top-up. The discount is possible because the retailers get commission from the network once the phone and SIM have been used for a while.

Where customers buy the phone, dump the SIM and put their own SIM in, the retailer is not paid. Most handsets have a PIN-protected option to pair a particular SIM-card with the handset. This is the option that will be used when the phone is to be sold on a particular deal and it is obvious that that the customer is, as far as the retail is concerned, pulling a fast one.

All of which has nothing to do with CarPhoneWarehouse and so is a post likely to just cause confusion in this thread.

Ian011

It has everything to do with this thread as the sales person would have used the option to lock the Virgin SIM to the handset so as to prevent it being used on another network. If a retailer is seeing large sales of a particular handset on a particular network, but isn't being paid back by the network this option will be used to discourage rogue purchases.

System

Sim (network) locks are put on as part of the manufacturing process. Once in the shop, it's either locked or not - the sales people don't lock them.

Stop talking irrelevent rubbish.

Ian011 wrote: »

It has everything to do with this thread as the sales person would have used the option to lock the Virgin SIM to the handset so as to prevent it being used on another network. If a retailer is seeing large sales of a particular handset on a particular network, but isn't being paid back by the network this option will be used to discourage rogue purchases.

Guys_Dad

Heng_Leng wrote: »

Sim (network) locks are put on as part of the manufacturing process. Once in the shop, it's either locked or not - the sales people don't lock them.

Stop talking irrelevent rubbish.

What I do not have the information about is whether or not when a sales guy feeds the IMEI number, sim number etc into the CPW system anything filters back to the network in question.

Now I do know that networks can bar handsets (eg if one is stolen) and they will have information from usage as to whether or not that subsidised handset is being used on their network. Could the network then put a lock on that handset after, say, a couple of weeks if it is not appearing on their system? Maybe, if they can, Virgin are particularly hot on that, I just don't know.

This is where my lack of inside knowledge lets me down