Fatigue

theoretica

oldandhappy wrote: »

Insult was not intended. I have read up a lot on Cancer because my daughter has recently been enduring aggressive breast cancer apart from other close family have suffered various types so have a personnel interest in cures rates this last year.

I hope her personal treatment is effective, and not too unpleasant.

A.Penny.Saved

avogadro wrote: »

A.Penny.Saved wrote: »

Well I know the cause with no doubt whatsoever!

It is believed that CFS/ME sufferers have Increase Intestinal Permeability Syndrome [IIPS], research is currently investigating this and will be available later this year I understand.

Rather a contradiction there.. .

Not at all, merely you misreading and misunderstanding what I wrote!

I will spell it out so that you do not misunderstand it. It is believed by researchers and the charity funding the research that CFS/ME sufferers have Increased Intestinal Permeability Syndrome [IIPS] aka Leaky Gut. IIPS is what causes the immune system problems, sometimes low white cell counts and pain in muscles and joints, very similar to other auto immune illnesses such as Arthritis which has the exact same cause, a bacterial infection! The exact location of the infection dictates whether it is CFS, one centimetre further over and it becomes another autoimmune illness.

A PhD student/researcher, at the University of East Anglia which is funded by a ME charity is currently investigating the permeability of the digestive systems of CFS/ME sufferers using Lactulose/Mannitol to determine whether sufferers have IIPS. This is where the "it is believed that" comes from as in referring to others believing/suspecting and NOT "I believe that...". I know that it is so and do not have to wait for the research to be published! The problem is no one pays attention to the real clues, instead focusing too closely on a myriad seemingly unrelated symptoms. I do not focus, I look at the bigger picture. The cause is not going to be found quickly either unless I do it myself. I would estimate that it will take others 10 years to find the cause while they investigate various parts of the digestive system. Sticking things up where the sun doesn't shine etc. lol
https://www.uea.ac.uk/about/media-room/press-release-archive/-/asset_publisher/a2jEGMiFHPhv/content/crowdsourcing-raises-vital-funds-for-me-research-into-leaky-gut-syndrome-

Elizabeth_Braun wrote: »

An overdrive in the hypothalamus gland in the brain. There is medical research documenting abnormalities along the HPA axis (hypothalamus - pituitary gland - adrenals) in CFS and FMS patients.

That is old news, part of the problem yes but not the cause. There is sometimes inflammation of the hypothalamus but also sometimes and probably more frequently underfunction. It is all connected by a bacteria infection. The bacterial infection affects an area of the nervous system which has a knock on effect to the hypothalamus function and also affects the pituitary function to some degree. This affect all hormonal systems including thyroid ie weight gain. I doubt that you really had ME because it was probably misdiagnosed and the treatment you received goes towards a mental cause of your tiredness which blocked emotions can cause but blocked emotions do not cause ME. More likely you reacted to a loss and had atypical depression which is what the treatment resolved. BTW most people in this country block emotions, fear of expressing sadness ie crying, is instilled in children by their parents by parents showing disapproval when a child is still crying at the age of around 4 years old, it's a crime IMO and causes unnecessary stress and depression. What they should do is to encourage the child to find a more appropriate and effective way to express the emotion rather than forcing the child to repress the emotion. All too often parents tell children to stop crying, sometimes swearing at them like my neighbours or showing strong disapproval when they cry. Babies cry, it is the only way for them to show that something is wrong but as a child grows up and learns to talk, talking is a far more effective method. This is what they should be encouraged to do and they should never be stopped from crying or expressing any emotion. Stopping the expression of an emotion causes fear of that emotion, a stress which can be very damaging and eventually affects mood and chronically high cortisol levels as the brain/nervous system adapts to that stress. Anxiety is very similar where the nervous system becomes chronically activated.

megaginge wrote: »

I concur that some form of intestinal dysbiosis, such as Candida Albicans or a bacterial imbalance could be responsible ... could.

Lets face it......you know absolutely nothing about it! What rubbish. You read a few stories and you are trying to make out that you know something and trust me you do not! The changes to the CFS Microbiome is due to effects of the bacteria and it's effects on digestion. Poor food breakdown and constipation causes changes to the bacteria flora in the colon. Again this is not the cause it is an effect.

megaginge wrote: »

No you don't. You're discussing leaky gut syndrome, which may or may not be a thing... But it's by far not the only possible cause.

Then why would a charity pay,kindly donated, for research in order to determine whether it plays a part in CFS if they did not believe there was a very strong possibility of it being an important part. It's all connected by a bacterial infection! The bacteria, I believe they are gram negative, creates a biofilm which replaces a section of the digestive mucosa and allows large food molecules to enter the blood stream in order to provoke an immune reaction and histamine release. This benefits the bacteria and allows them to live as they take advantage of the normal human bodies responses. If the biofilm degrades it allows more food molecules to enter the blood stream which further provokes an immune response, histamine release, setting up a feedback loop which assists them to live which helps them stop the biofilm degradation. The area which the bacteria attack is linked to an area of the nervous system which affects the integrity of the hypothalamus/pituitary function which provokes further symptoms. The immune complexes which are created in reaction to the food molecules cause further problems where they settle in the body where the immune system control is weakened, BTW these areas are also at higher risk of Cancer. There is also a link to the Colon, actually the right side transverse colon where irritable bowel can occur. This whole process is all related to the energy problems which no one seems to have noticed. The blood chemistry is also altered which provokes further symptoms.

The damage to the brain and nervous system has not been mentioned and that is also a result of the bacteria and their desire to live and survive. I will not go into detail how this all fits together because I will not give this away on a forum so some undeserving researcher can make their name. I am the best hope but I have had CFS considerably longer than the vast majority of people with CFS, over 30 years since infection and I remember the day. BTW these bacteria also play a big part in Cancer formation too.

ATM I am attempting to acquire 4 amino acids, d- forms which are proving very difficult to purchase. These have been shown in numerous studies to be very effective at causing the break up of biofilms which needs to be degraded in order to destroy the bacteria. The more it can be degraded the more effective will additional treatments be at destroying the bacteria. Getting a herb to inhibit the bacteria's efflux pumps is not easy, but possible but it is needed in a fluid form such as a tincture which can no longer be sold to the public because of the THMPD and therefore I will have to make it myself. I have most of the other stuff needed but these critical things I do not yet have and have been unable to find a source. It's very frustrating!

I may have to have a go at using another bacteria as they are meant to produce tiny amounts of the d- amino acids as they are frequently used in many bacteria formulas. Combining them with Interfase plus to stress the biofilm might work but I would much prefer a small supply, less than a gram of each of the 4 amino acids to have a much more directed effect. 100mg would probably be enough as it is only a signalling molecule which triggers biofilm breakup. Even 1 gram is affordable but not as cheap as the more common l- form amino acids but no company will sell to the public that I can find. Until I can beat it, everyone is stuck waiting for useless researchers stuck with their thumbs up their asses. I cannot prove it under the current circumstances as far too much of my time is being used up counteracting all the effects of my condition, stimulating thyroid, pituitary, hypothalamus, attempting to correct and prevent circulatory system problems which I have found some new things, I have a family history of circulatory disease and other illnesses which make it far more likely. Thank god for a Chinese herb which has helped for over 20 years and helps to lower liver enzymes and increasing pituitary function. It treats a number of the effects of ME.

The last thing that CFS sufferers need is having doctors nuking their digestive systems with antibiotics because as you have already hinted, the bacterial flora in CFS digestive systems is already altered and they do not need the flora damaged any further.

Mojisola wrote: »

I didn't mean that your fatigue wasn't physical and real but, as you said yourself, its origin was an unmet emotional need.

Fatigue is only one symptom of ME and not always the worst one.

I think that people who recover through MT or the Lightning Process
didn't have ME in the first place. I'm very pleased for you that you are better but I know people with ME who have been made much worse by the two treatments.

I do agree with what you say, doctors rule out other illnesses and then pile anything else into the catch all CFS/ME/Fibro group depending upon symptoms. Real CFS/ME/Fibro always includes hypothalamus/pituitary dysfunction and ALWAYS includes some immune dysfunction usually joint and muscle pain anywhere where the immune system control has degraded due to changes to the nervous system which helps regulate immune system function. This leads to the immune complexes causing inflammation in those affected places. This is why symptoms differ in different people as their nervous systems are in different states. It's the state of the nervous system which dictates what symptoms a person gets in response to the immune complexes due to IIPS. This is the perplexing thing to doctors and the medical profession, they spend time wondering how there can be so many different symptoms and yet it is all linked so beautifully.

melanzana

Hypothyroidism.

Have you had this checked out yet? Just another possibility.

Miroslav

Andrew_Ryan_89 wrote: »

Hey guys,

I thought I would try this forum as online searches and visiting the GP has not resulted in anything.

I am 26 and most of the time, especially at home, I am tired. I don't sleep well and my body feels tense when going to bed. On the weekends especially where I am not forced to get up, I just feel so down at times to a point I can't move too well. I remember going to the shopping mall and it's a struggle to walk sometimes and admittedly have to sit down and take breaks. I don't feel out of breath or anything like that, I just feel cranky (for a lack of a better word).

I have seen a chiropractor, GP, taken iron supplements, worked out for months straight and nothing has worked. Blood test revealed low Vitamin C and nothing else.

This has been going on for years, 10+ and started when I was around 14-15. The reason I know I feel not right if I remember a day at school. Didn't do anything the night before but (and it hasn't happened since) I "remember" actually waking up. It's hard to explain what I mean there but it felt that I slept undisturbed and my awakening wasn't something sudden. The whole day I just felt fantastic. I felt lighter, stronger and had a big smile on my face all day. It was weird. I would take random sprints because I felt so full of life and again, just felt light.

In the 10+ years since then, I have not had a day like that ever and I have pretty much settled for having periodic naps and not sleeping properly and the lethargic feeling I have.

What prompted me to post on this forum is that I now feel it is affecting my career. Regardless of the lathargy I always battled through it as it was physical and I was still driven to work and achieve. Now, it's seems like it has "spread" to my head and I find myself coming home from work with a !!!! load to do and just collapsing on the sofa and making every effort not to move.

Any hints, tips, and fellow stories will be much appreciated.

Many thanks!

Ask your GP for a full blood count and specifically checking TSH, T4 and T3.

I had the symptoms and more (whcih you may also have) and was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism and Graves Disease and then Eye Thyroid Disease.

It's worth checking out.

melanzana wrote: »

Hypothyroidism.

Have you had this checked out yet? Just another possibility.

It's a big possibility as I mentioned just above your quote. Good spot.

Mojisola

Miroslav wrote: »

Ask your GP for a full blood count and specifically checking TSH, T4 and T3.

Our GPs are not allowed to ask for a full thyroid check. All they can get from the hospital is a TSH level. If that is within the normal range, the NHS won't pay for further tests unless requested by a consultant.

The only other alternative is to pay a private lab for the full test.

just_trying

Has your vitamin d been tested. Mine just has its zero. Worth looking up symptoms.

hollydays

I'm interested in how to a help a friend who has fatigue, particularly in the afternoon. I know she has arthritis ( I think it may be rheumatoid) and I understand a combination of depression caused by the pain, are having an effect. Not sure how to help her as she's very down.

Alwayspurple

Thyroid?

I was knackered and down and slept so badly waking at 3am and sleeping badly agAin.

Diagnosed with Autoimmune thyroiditis.
My body is destroying my thyroid.


Keep at the doc. Tiredness seems to usually mean something X

jenniewb

hollydays wrote: »

I'm interested in how to a help a friend who has fatigue, particularly in the afternoon. I know she has arthritis ( I think it may be rheumatoid) and I understand a combination of depression caused by the pain, are having an effect. Not sure how to help her as she's very down.

Have you asked her?
With her arthritis, in my experience of friends with arthritis, people are in various stages of it and it tends to get worse with time, some worry about this and like to try to maintain their independence for as long as possible (so offering to do things can feel like a bit of an insult even if it isn't meant that way). Other people have gotten to the stage where they are very aware of where they are in their illness and will take up offers of practical help (as long as it doesn't put anyone out too badly) and offering can be gratefully received. The only way you will ever really know the difference is to talk to your friend and say you want to help, just because you are her friend rather than due to expecting anything back or to make yourself feel useful- make it clear it's for her not for you.


With regards to her depression, (and spoken from personal experience). It's unlikely if it's been diagnosed and is particularly difficult for your friend, that you will be able to take away the pain she is likely to be feeling. But what you can do (and please don't feel it's 'only'- you can still make a huge difference), is just to be there for her to metaphorically hold her hand. Not try to change her, talk her round or get her to do anything (some people think forcing those with depression to "get out more"..etc is helpful when all it does is add pressure and a feeling of worthlessness if it doesn't help and quite often it doesn't work for everyone). Just being there, just listening, suggesting going out with her if she usually finds things helpful but needs help to start (everything can feel overwhelming before you start for most people, but when you have depression this is magnified many times over). It can help to remember that if you find something difficult or scary or just anything that raises any negative feelings at all, can and are often multiplied for someone experiencing depression. It also will feel never ending and the idea of there being a light at the end of the tunnel will feel a bit like trying to convince yourself that grass is not green it is in fact made out of 24 carat gold. Getting though something like that is a lot about trying to convince yourself of things you don't even believe, just so you can leave your bed in the morning.


Just be there to support, don't judge and don't expect. That's not you can 'only' do, it can make a massive difference if you find the right fine line to balance on!

Tygermoth

Hi all,

Not meaning to hijack the OPs thread but i have the same issue.

Normally active (bikram/gymnastics/agility/ really long dog walks) I seem to have had a bout of what can only be described as extreme exhaustion. it's been going on for several months to the point i stopped doing the above exercise because i am just to tired to drum up the energy to go. Diet is good, but overweight, however have been for a number of years so this is not new. Bed by 9 up at 6.

I feel like a overtired toddler all the time, pouty, emotional and disgruntled. I am also run down and had a run of infections and illnesses. Its hard to describe how utterly shattered i am.

At work i hide my issue by being manic in the morning so that when my batteries run down later in the day i can coast but still have been super productive. Weekends i have a three hour nap on both days (also nap when on leave)

Gp was clueless (in his defense- tiredness is such a broad symptom), asked about depression. I am in no way depressed, life is great i just miss having some vim and vigour!

So my main question was about blood testing. I want to have my blood privately tested for EVERYTHING and am considering having an MRI done but have no clue where to go. I checked a few (BMI/Nuff) and they will only do if you are over 47.

anyone got any recomendations?

Ps - my GP seemed to think it was perfectly normal for a fairly healthy person to have to stop while getting dressed in the morning to sit down for a rest because they were too tired to continue, or that when out shopping stopping to sit down regularly as i just feel exhausted. Straw poll anyone else have to do this?