New Kitchen problems - supplier v fitter

Chippy_putlor

Thanks again for the replies.

Its really good to hear feedback from other people (neutrals).

We chose the worktop via our kitchen supplier. They designed our kitchen. I wouldn't personally class the worktop as low quality, we just hadnt grasped exactly what having a straight edged worktop would mean. Its our first ever kitchen - so a bit new to all this. That said i would be very happy with it, if either the supplier or fitter have informed me it needed varnished and foiled. I would have been happy to do this to ensure we looked after it. I personally varnished our worktop as they had explained that should be done prior to fitting.

To answer some of the questions above, following seeking the advice of the fitters (to foil) and the supplier (to varnish or foil), I requested the workbench be coated in foil as that complied with both of their advice. And that is our problem - that we should have done both to comply with the guarantee of the worktop.

Is it fair to say that most people feel that it is a mixture of 'blame' but nobody has felt the supplier has any responsibility. That surprises me as I would have assumed when they sold the worktop to us, that they would have said it needed some treatment prior to fitting. Particularly as they also sold us the dishwasher which caused the damage to the workbench.

Not only did they not inform us of the above, but they also provided us with the wrong advice to vanish or foil when I asked them what to do.

I'm not saying I feel the blame is at their door. But I can imagine the fitters responding in this kind of fashion.

Thanks again for your replies.

Furts

Chippy_putlor wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies.

Its really good to hear feedback from other people (neutrals).

We chose the worktop via our kitchen supplier. They designed our kitchen. I wouldn't personally class the worktop as low quality, we just hadnt grasped exactly what having a straight edged worktop would mean. Its our first ever kitchen - so a bit new to all this. That said i would be very happy with it, if either the supplier or fitter have informed me it needed varnished and foiled. I would have been happy to do this to ensure we looked after it. I personally varnished our worktop as they had explained that should be done prior to fitting.

To answer some of the questions above, following seeking the advice of the fitters (to foil) and the supplier (to varnish or foil), I requested the workbench be coated in foil as that complied with both of their advice. And that is our problem - that we should have done both to comply with the guarantee of the worktop.

Is it fair to say that most people feel that it is a mixture of 'blame' but nobody has felt the supplier has any responsibility. That surprises me as I would have assumed when they sold the worktop to us, that they would have said it needed some treatment prior to fitting. Particularly as they also sold us the dishwasher which caused the damage to the workbench.

Not only did they not inform us of the above, but they also provided us with the wrong advice to vanish or foil when I asked them what to do.

I'm not saying I feel the blame is at their door. But I can imagine the fitters responding in this kind of fashion.

Thanks again for your replies.

Every car has faults, but the manufacturers do not high light these to consumers. Consumers learn of the with the passing of time. This is a fact of life.

The supplier wants a sale and a profit and will not high light anything which will be detrimental to this. This is a simple fact of commercial life. But if you feel the supplier should take a responsibility where does one draw the line? If you gorge your self on food from Sainsbury does this make the supermarket responsible? If you put a Tesco ready meal in a microwave for too long, and it is spoilt, does this make Tesco responsible?

You may be right about the supplier but we must all take responsibility for our actions and decisions. This is a realistic take on the ways of the world!

ryder72

We have a straight (PP)edged laminate worktop fitted in our working display in the kitchen and this has been in place for over 10 years without any problems. It doesnt even have a foil guard, just the dishwasher manufacturers steam guard and its been absolutely fine.

OP - I dont see why you feel the retailer should have given out explicit instructions for fitters on how the worktop should sit over a dishwasher (or for that matter that hob/sink cutouts must be sealed) for what is elementary knowledge for a kitchen fitter. It could be argued that the kitchen fitters were utterly incompetent (or as Furts said, not kitchen fitters at all), in which case the onus must lie with you for not vetting your trades properly.

Chippy_putlor

Thanks for the advice. All valid points and we will take them all on board.

We would most certainly now choose different fitters but we cant do much about that now. We met with two previous clients who were very happy with their work.

Final question: We are yet to pay our total balance on the job in question. The fitters have had to replace parts poorly fitted prior to this. Hopefully we will be able to reach an suitable agreement over what to do. Would you guys pay the full balance if we are unable to reach a compromise?

Much appreciated.

Chippy_putlor

Ironically, our preferred choice of fitters was the kitchen suppliers themselves but they were unavailable. They of course would also have not met the worktop guarentee in their fitting, but at least we would have had no argument over who is at fault.

littlerock

I don't have any varnish or steam guard or foil on my laminate worktop over the dishwasher and it has been fine for the last ten years. That said the profile is 1/4 round, not 1/2 round as currently seems to be the standard, so there is no laminate curving round out of view above the dishwasher. I don't know if that is relevant but I certainly have never had a problem with the worktop over the dishwasher.

OK I have just checked and my dishwasher does not have a steam vent. It is Bosch. I have had dishwashers for a long time now and this is I think my third. I always replace it with another Bosch. Maybe none of them have steam vents? - something to do with the design. So maybe buying a non venting dishwasher would solve the problem easier than replacing the worktops etc?

Furts

Chippy_putlor wrote: »

Ironically, our preferred choice of fitters was the kitchen suppliers themselves but they were unavailable. They of course would also have not met the worktop guarentee in their fitting, but at least we would have had no argument over who is at fault.

We can both speculate on this but the answer is who knows? My answers to your posts have been coming from a "real world" perspective. Life is never perfect!

In the real world it is likely your kitchen supplier would use sub contractors to fit the kitchen. ( Even if they drive round in sign written vans belonging to the supplier they are still likely to be on a price for the job). The supplier may have little idea about the competence of these individuals and little interest in investigating this. (The supplier just wants to make a profit out of the sub contractors, and any probing, investigating and checking could jeopardise this).


Also the supplier may have little knowledge of the technicalities of kitchen fitting. This will be because they are sales orientated and are driven by money and could not care less about details. (This scenario I have experienced this week with a dispute I am dealing with.)

When my scenarios are considered you will see that had your supplier fitted the kitchen you may still have experienced problems!

SuzieSue

Furts wrote: »

When my scenarios are considered you will see that had your supplier fitted the kitchen you may still have experienced problems!

Yes, but surely even if the supplier had used subcontractors, as long as the OP had only paid the supplier then the supplier would have had to put things right.

Furts

SuzieSue wrote: »

Yes, but surely even if the supplier had used subcontractors, as long as the OP had only paid the supplier then the supplier would have had to put things right.

It depends what contract terms were agreed, but the automatic answer is no. Take a conservatory I was recently involved with. The order was placed with the company and the fitting was included. But this was an itemised sum that was paid direct to the fitters. (Not immediately obvious to many people, but it was stipulated within the break down of the quote) The consumer passed the labour payment to the conservatory company and she was informed in writing, that this had been passed in full to the fitters in accordance with the terms. Hence the fitting was excluded from the conservatory company obligations.

Equally many consumers deal with Howdens. They may meet the Howdens rep at their home and agree the terms and design. People then think they are dealing with Howdens. But the work is the responsibility of the fitters, and Howdens can walk away from issues such as those raised by OP.

SuzieSue

Furts wrote: »

It depends what contract terms were agreed, but the automatic answer is no. Take a conservatory I was recently involved with. The order was placed with the company and the fitting was included. But this was an itemised sum that was paid direct to the fitters. (Not immediately obvious to many people, but it was stipulated within the break down of the quote) The consumer passed the labour payment to the conservatory company and she was informed in writing, that this had been passed in full to the fitters in accordance with the terms. Hence the fitting was excluded from the conservatory company obligations.

That's very useful to know and the consumer needs to watch out for this. I will need to check back but when I had my conservatory built around 7 years ago, I don't remember seeing anything like this in any of the paperwork I received.

So the supplier is explicitly distancing themselves from the fitting which they would need to do rather than just burying it in the small print.