New Kitchen problems - supplier v fitter

Chippy_putlor

Hi guys,

New to the forum but in the need of some help/advice!

We have recently got a new kitchen. We have purchased from a independant supplier and then got our tradesmen to fit it. After installation we noticed a problem with our worktop over our new dishwasher. The edging of the laminate work top is straight edged and starting to bubble. Its very subtle, but we were concerned about the long term implications and wanted to know if it had been fitted correctly or if there was a manufacturing issue.

The kitchen supplier has visited and they said it is a manufacturing defect. The fitters have said the same. Today we had a visit from the manufacturer who have said it is not a product fault and is due to the its fitting/maintenance.
It transpires that the laminate should have been varnished (twice) along the outer underneath edge to protect the worktop from moisture. It then should have had foil in addition to protect the dishwasher from heat. Ive hunted out the leaflet that came with the worktop (our builders placed it with all our appliance leaflets and ive never seen it before) and it states the above clearly as a recommendation.
We now have to wait for the manufacturers report, which will get sent to our suppliers supplier (!) and then to our supplier before we even get to see it.

My initial reaction of the suppliers:
We were not told the laminate required treatment prior to installation. It was only verbally suggested that we could use either varnish or foil when I asked for a recommendation when i spotted the bottom wasnt protected. We were not supplied with either foil or varish to fit the job as part of the job. They talked about sending some foil when i rang for their opinion but it never arrived.
I feel the supplier have ultimately sold us this laminate and designed the kitchen where it rests above out dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer (both of which also should have foil by the manufacturer but don't). And Im thinking in part if what we have been sold is fit for purpose.
There are also some other issues the rep has raised in regards to maintenance such as we shouldnt allow any direct heat from pans and even cups of tea as they would risk damaging the worktop due to some shiney flecks in the work surface. We were not informed of this side of things/the worktops limitations prior to purchase.



In regards to our Fitters:
I wish we had read the instructions to the worktop, but there was an assumption that the fitting team would have done that. The leaflet does clearly state it it recommended to have a)varnish and b)foil. Our fitted did suggest I could varnish the underside of the worktop but this was part of a broader conversation about my concerns surrounding the paper backing - once I had spotted it. The worktop was also already fitted and i couldnt have varnished the recommended 50mm at that stage anyway. Following our concerns, he supplied the foil for us for under the dishwasher, as he had some spare from another job.
The fitters fitted the dishwasher (new), washing machine (existing) and tumble dryer (existing) under the worktops. The foil was only fitted on my questing and followup and only above the dishwasher. There has been nothing done to protect the utility worktop from the heat of the other units. The instructions state the worktops need both varnish and foil to protect it them.


From our side as customer:
We did not expect our fitter to rub the oak island down and varnish that...I did that myself and Im worried he may feel this is the same with this. I think both 'supplier' and 'fitter' should have taken more responsibility to prevent our outcome. For example, both supplier and fitter pointed out that the oak island worktop would need treatment before fitting. Neither have gave the same advice over the laminate.
Over the weeks, I have asked both supplier and fitter, what to do and both suggested EITHER varnish or foil. Not BOTH. And only by me initiating conversations. I don't feel it is our responsibility to check the supplier and fitters are doing everything correctly, but maybe that's what we should have done?

I hope the two can discuss together once the report arrives but im worried they will both point the finger at the other and we will be left with it. We feel a little mis-sold by our supplier. But also feel that the fitters havent taken the time to read the instructions/maintenance.

I've read around the sale of goods act. But not sure really who is the blame? I don't want to unfairly approach one or the other until I feel confident were we stand.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Silver-Surfer_2

Chippy_putlor wrote: »

Hi guys,

New to the forum but in the need of some help/advice!

We have recently got a new kitchen. We have purchased from a independant supplier and then got our tradesmen to fit it. After installation we noticed a problem with our worktop over our new dishwasher. The edging of the laminate work top is straight edged and starting to bubble. Its very subtle, but we were concerned about the long term implications and wanted to know if it had been fitted correctly or if there was a manufacturing issue.

The kitchen supplier has visited and they said it is a manufacturing defect. The fitters have said the same. Today we had a visit from the manufacturer who have said it is not a product fault and is due to the its fitting/maintenance.
It transpires that the laminate should have been varnished (twice) along the outer underneath edge to protect the worktop from moisture. It then should have had foil in addition to protect the dishwasher from heat. Ive hunted out the leaflet that came with the worktop (our builders placed it with all our appliance leaflets and ive never seen it before) and it states the above clearly as a recommendation.
We now have to wait for the manufacturers report, which will get sent to our suppliers supplier (!) and then to our supplier before we even get to see it.

My initial reaction of the suppliers:
We were not told the laminate required treatment prior to installation. It was only verbally suggested that we could use either varnish or foil when I asked for a recommendation when i spotted the bottom wasnt protected. We were not supplied with either foil or varish to fit the job as part of the job. They talked about sending some foil when i rang for their opinion but it never arrived.
I feel the supplier have ultimately sold us this laminate and designed the kitchen where it rests above out dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer (both of which also should have foil by the manufacturer but don't). And Im thinking in part if what we have been sold is fit for purpose.
There are also some other issues the rep has raised in regards to maintenance such as we shouldnt allow any direct heat from pans and even cups of tea as they would risk damaging the worktop due to some shiney flecks in the work surface. We were not informed of this side of things/the worktops limitations prior to purchase.



In regards to our Fitters:
I wish we had read the instructions to the worktop, but there was an assumption that the fitting team would have done that. The leaflet does clearly state it it recommended to have a)varnish and b)foil. Our fitted did suggest I could varnish the underside of the worktop but this was part of a broader conversation about my concerns surrounding the paper backing - once I had spotted it. The worktop was also already fitted and i couldnt have varnished the recommended 50mm at that stage anyway. Following our concerns, he supplied the foil for us for under the dishwasher, as he had some spare from another job.
The fitters fitted the dishwasher (new), washing machine (existing) and tumble dryer (existing) under the worktops. The foil was only fitted on my questing and followup and only above the dishwasher. There has been nothing done to protect the utility worktop from the heat of the other units. The instructions state the worktops need both varnish and foil to protect it them.


From our side as customer:
We did not expect our fitter to rub the oak island down and varnish that...I did that myself and Im worried he may feel this is the same with this. I think both 'supplier' and 'fitter' should have taken more responsibility to prevent our outcome. For example, both supplier and fitter pointed out that the oak island worktop would need treatment before fitting. Neither have gave the same advice over the laminate.
Over the weeks, I have asked both supplier and fitter, what to do and both suggested EITHER varnish or foil. Not BOTH. And only by me initiating conversations. I don't feel it is our responsibility to check the supplier and fitters are doing everything correctly, but maybe that's what we should have done?

I hope the two can discuss together once the report arrives but im worried they will both point the finger at the other and we will be left with it. We feel a little mis-sold by our supplier. But also feel that the fitters havent taken the time to read the instructions/maintenance.

I've read around the sale of goods act. But not sure really who is the blame? I don't want to unfairly approach one or the other until I feel confident were we stand.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards

What exactly did the supplier tell you?

You were not told but there was a verbal suggestion. Sounds like someone told you.

phill99

This is why it is never a good idea to have different parties do diffetent parts of the installation ie a seperate supplier and separate fitter. When somethng goes wrong, both parties blame each other.

I fit about 12 kitchens a year. All of the dishwashers I have installed are supplied with a length of foil to stick under the front of the worktop to stop the moisture that rises as you open the door from affecting the chipboard core. An experienced fitter will know this. If there is no foil, he should supply it, or do something to seal the exposed chipboard.

I think your fitter is at fault. However, if this was not brought to his attention by the mmanufacturer or supplier,en they have responsibility. Sadly this is the problem when you don' go for a 'supply and fit' option.

premkit

The fitter should have sealed or protected the dishwasher area, really the whole exposed area should be sealed especially around the sink. I always tell my customers not to choose square edged tops, because of the potential of blowing, you have to be really exact with the sealing. Leave mm not sealed and the water will find it.

Risteard

I think the OP is to blame for supplying the kitchen instead of letting the fitter do that.

ryder72

Definitely down to the fitter. Its common knowledge that laminate, wood and corian worktops have to sealed above dishwashers to protect from rising steam. Most dishwasher manufacturers supply a heat guard which is sufficient but a belt and braces foil is no bad thing.

Chippy_putlor

Thanks for the replies.

We were not told anything initially from the suppliers. However once it was started to get fitted I noticed the underside was unprotected. I then asked both the supplier and the fitter their opinions. The supplier suggested vanish or foil and the fitter suggested foil.

The issue is the manufacturer is saying we should have had both varnish and foil. And therefore the responsibility is not theirs. Prior to this both supplier and fitters have blamed the manufacturer.

I have only just seen the installation and maintenance information that came with the worktop. That clear confirms what the manufacturer has said that it should have both varnish and foil. Our fitters open all the kitchen boxes etc on arrival and we have never seen it. It appears they have not read it before installation.

But that said the suppliers haven't told we the correct information either.

What would people suggest we do now. Wait for the report? Or be proactive and explore getting the issue resolved now/before it worsens? If so - any suggestions how to go about this? Anyone have any legal knowledge to support us?

Chippy_putlor

Thanks for the replies.

We were not told anything initially from the suppliers. However once it was started to get fitted I noticed the underside was unprotected. I then asked both the supplier and the fitter their opinions. The supplier suggested vanish or foil and the fitter suggested foil.

The issue is the manufacturer is saying we should have had both varnish and foil. And therefore the responsibility is not theirs. Prior to this both supplier and fitters have blamed the manufacturer.

I have only just seen the installation and maintenance information that came with the worktop. That clear confirms what the manufacturer has said that it should have both varnish and foil. Our fitters open all the kitchen boxes etc on arrival and we have never seen it. It appears they have not read it before installation.

But that said the suppliers haven't told we the correct information either.

What would people suggest we do now. Wait for the report? Or be proactive and explore getting the issue resolved now/before it worsens? If so - any suggestions how to go about this? Anyone have any legal knowledge to support us?

elliot341

Chippy_putlor wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I then asked both the supplier and the fitter their opinions. The supplier suggested vanish or foil and the fitter suggested foil.

What got fitted? As both parties recommended foil I assume this got fitted? Or if one suggested varnish could this not have been done as well as foil as a belt and braces approach?

What were your actions when you received the above advice?

cddc

I am with the majority here in saying fitter. If he was experienced, he would have known what to do. If not, he should have at least read the instructions so he would have then known what to do.

Furts

I am with all those good posters above, and will re-inforce the basics of the case.

OP has specified, or sought, a poor worktop. Here OP must accept some responsibility for their actions. Due diligence and common sense come to mind here

All worktops require respect and common sense, and OP'S worktop falls into this. The advise about hot pans etc. is a statement of the "bleedin obvious."

The fitters were not competent - sealing edges of worktops was being done on house building sites at least 30 years ago, so it is not a new procedure. However, the fitters may have made no claims to great competence - they may just be building workers having a go at fitting a kitchen.

The upshot is to accept matters as they are and live with it. This is being pragmatic- it is only a kitchen so hardly a health and safety issue. Simply put this down to a lesson gained in life.

An alternative upshot is to seek a new worktop. I wish you luck in getting the supply and fitting costs paid by your fitters, but they may be honourable people.

The further, but difficult, upshot is to replace the worktop with a decent quality one. This will mean an acceptance on OP's part that a poor decision was made before, and the fitters could latch onto this and be less reluctant to co-operate.

Of course, this case could end up in Court. Beware that Judges are not fools. The stance could be OP was project managing and seeking their own fitters. OP chose a poor worktop, and is now paying the price. The fitters could argue they were acting under the instructions and guidance of the project manager, plus the project manager was not adequately inspecting their work... basically the case will get rather messy!