BREXIT - Why?

savings_my_hobby

zolablue25 wrote: »

...and I'm sure the current debate on In/Out is certainly making us many more friends :cool:

Not fond of Democracy in the EU are they?

savings_my_hobby

jimjames wrote: »

Seriously? Have you actually looked or checked? Part of the problem is that so many things are taken for granted but were EU originated.

Paid annual leave
No roaming charges across EU
Equal pay
Time off work
Maternity pay up to 12 months
Parental leave
Healthcare across EU
Right to live (and work) across EU - taken up by many Brits in France and Spain
EU wide standards for products
2 year warranty on goods


You may not think they're important but things like workers rights are likely to be first in the firing line if we leave.

Are you seriously suggesting the worlds 5th biggest economy could not sustain workers rights? Really?

Or that British workers would not vote for a party that would reinstate them? there is not a lot of thinking going on here, Project fear is really taking hold of some people it would seem.

savings_my_hobby

colsten wrote: »

There is an assumption that all the money that presently goes into the EU could be saved and used otherwise, e.g. for the NHS or for early State Pensions for disgruntled women.

This assertion by the Out campaign is grossly misleading, and it's a disgrace that the leading lights of the Out campaign keep telling people £350m a week could be saved, without putting this number into any context whatsoever. They are ruthlessly exploiting those who think "wow, threehundredandfifty million", and who have no idea how this number relates to anything else.

Firstly, there will be costs to whatever other trade agreement we would have with the EU, as is manifested by the Swiss or Norwegian payments to the EU, which are not dissimilar to ours per head of the population.

Secondly, if we stopped paying, there would be a negative effect on our trading with the EU. By EU Treaty, EU countries must not give tariff-free access to non-EU members. A Treaty that can only be changed by unilateral agreement of all members and it's safe to assume that there would be at least one country, but probably more like 27, who would not agree to make an exception for Britain.

Thirdly, the EU budget is actually a tiny part of our expenditure, and it would essentially be a drop in the NHS or Pensions or Benefits or any other ocean. I won't apologise for posting this pie chart again, as it can't be shown often enough.

I would not care if it was £350 quid, why should we give anything to these faceless unelected bureaucrats?

I tell you what you give me a percentage of your wage and I will give a smaller percentage back, then I will tell you how to spend it, but that's ok because we have a trade deal, in which I sell you more than you sell me.

Then that brings me to the free movement of people, which is like saying we can use each others car, you drive a Bentley (which represents Britain) and I drive a Lada (which represents Romania), I don't see many Bentley owners swapping for Ladas and I don't see many Brits leaving for Romania or any other ex communist country that joined after 2004, with a nat min wage of F-all an hour.

We are net contributors one of about 8 countries that are, the rest are heavily subsidised and do not even belong in a trade Union with us (I.e Greece).

We should choose how the money is spent not to be told. Just like you choose how your money is spent as do I.

savings_my_hobby

colsten wrote: »

Surely if the EU were only concerned with climate change in the EU, then the UK, after Brexit, would only be concerned with climate change in the UK?

Of course there is no point in tackling climate change just in the EU countries, and it is totally untrue that the EU is only concerned with climate change in the EU. Another un-truth peddled by a Brexiter.

The EU enables that 28 out of the 195 countries in the world have a consistent approach to climate matters. Note a consistent approach doesn't mean that everybody must do the same. But there are economies of scale when countries can freely share knowledge, research and resources.

Please tell us which part of the EU climate change program is bad for the UK and must be stopped. Please also tell us what climate change actions the UK would pursue after Brexit and what the costs and benefits of going it alone on climate change would be.

Don't Germany still burn coal?

The part that is bad for the UK in the Green levy. China and India pollute like crazy yet struggling people ion this country and to pay for crappy wind turbines most local people don't even want and the benefits of which are debatable.

veryintrigued

savings_my_hobby wrote: »

How does that remotely resemble xenophobia?

Agreed.

I was waiting for someone to bring up this xeno or racist card.

savings_my_hobby

colsten wrote: »

I have argued, and will continue to argue, that specifically the claim that £350m a week could be saved and used elsewhere is grossly misleading.

£350m is the bill, we take off the rebate Maggie won back for us.

I think the net cost is then £280m, the "benefits" are we get told what to spend it on.

savings_my_hobby

colsten wrote: »

Whenever the word 'boarder' is used in any Brexit debate, I dis-engage with that debater.

you may question his spelling (in the most unbecoming condescending way) but you cannot question his logic which does you a great disservice.

Dird

colsten wrote: »

I am, however, totally convinced that Brexit would cost us dearly, for many years if not decades to come.

Believe in Woodford: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-3451621/Neil-Woodford-lays-economics-Brexit.html (video midway down)

savings_my_hobby

veryintrigued wrote: »

Agreed.

I was waiting for someone to bring up this xeno or racist card.

Doesn't take long does it?

thegrind

Look what is happening in France. Workers rights are being reformed at this moment and its going down like a lead balloon. Basically changing the law and operating a company level negotiations procedure for workers rights amongst other things. So companies now call the shots good or bad thing i do not know.
But you can guarantee Brussels has forced Hollandes hand on this.

You could say this is the same as the periodic tantrums we briefly hear of the french workers. Its definitely something bigger and is obviously not being paraded around the media for us "thicko's" to see and have an opinion on

A lot is also happening with Greece and its debt crisis, again just a gloss over from the media.

It's stirring up in Europe that for sure. If we vote leave its not going to affect us only, it will send massive shockwaves through the EU.