VAT added to catering costs shortly before wedding

unholyangel

Stevie_Palimo wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but if this was a quote and said subject to VAT charges upon invoicing then they can justify this, It is after all about what the small print states and I don't believe we have the full picture here.

:wall:

And why would the law have been written in a way that states they must provide the total price inclusive of taxes if they didn't really mean it?

Why would not only the original judges, but also the appeal judges think that specifically stating the price is excluding vat and that the purchaser is liable for it is not enough to justify it but "prices are subject to vat" would be?

Further to that, you also have the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations which only permit clauses which can be used to vary the price in very limited circumstances (circumstances that don't apply here).

Even ignoring all the above, a practice is misleading if its in relation to material information (which includes the price & way its calculated) causes the consumer to take a different decision - either to not enter into the contract or to enter into it on different terms. Thats under the consumer protection from unfair trading regulations.

s_b

unholyangel wrote: »

:wall:

And why would the law have been written in a way that states they must provide the total price inclusive of taxes if they didn't really mean it?

Why would not only the original judges, but also the appeal judges think that specifically stating the price is excluding vat and that the purchaser is liable for it is not enough to justify it but "prices are subject to vat" would be?

Further to that, you also have the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations which only permit clauses which can be used to vary the price in very limited circumstances (circumstances that don't apply here).

Even ignoring all the above, a practice is misleading if its in relation to material information (which includes the price & way its calculated) causes the consumer to take a different decision - either to not enter into the contract or to enter into it on different terms. Thats under the consumer protection from unfair trading regulations.

the contract to supply is 2 weeks away
original estimate quite clearly says

Their original quote, coming to about 5,000 didn't have any line items for VAT or any breakdown but included the line "All catering costs are subject to vat." under the price.

the final bill to pay now includes vat at the current rate of 20% for the uk
as the supplier of a service total they cannot sell food that is vat free or lower
if the OP does NOT want to use the service then they should cancel now
i really dont see any problem apart from an imaginary one

unholyangel

s_b wrote: »

the contract to supply is 2 weeks away
original estimate quite clearly says


the final bill to pay now includes vat at the current rate of 20% for the uk
as the supplier of a service total they cannot sell food that is vat free or lower
if the OP does NOT want to use the service then they should cancel now
i really dont see any problem apart from an imaginary one

You going to make me repeat the wall emoticon?

Exile_geordie

unholyangel wrote: »

:wall:

And why would the law have been written in a way that states they must provide the total price inclusive of taxes if they didn't really mean it?

Why would not only the original judges, but also the appeal judges think that specifically stating the price is excluding vat and that the purchaser is liable for it is not enough to justify it but "prices are subject to vat" would be?

Further to that, you also have the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations which only permit clauses which can be used to vary the price in very limited circumstances (circumstances that don't apply here).

Even ignoring all the above, a practice is misleading if its in relation to material information (which includes the price & way its calculated) causes the consumer to take a different decision - either to not enter into the contract or to enter into it on different terms. Thats under the consumer protection from unfair trading regulations.

Just as a simple question here but does the situation change because they were given a quote before the final invoice? I only ask because I have had quotes that have also had on them +VAT before the invoice has come through which is basically the same thing as the OP has had but worded slightly differently

martinsurrey

unholyangel wrote: »

You going to make me repeat the wall emoticon?

The fact you are overlooking is when was the contract formed?

As you will know, the CCRs only apply to contracts, not to quotes.

A quote is NOT a contract, it is an invitation to treat.

An invitation to treat is not binding on the supplier (its the same as products miss priced on a shelf, the retailer doesn't need to honour that price at the till).

for it to become a contract there must be the 3 requirements of a contract.

Offer (clearly there was), Acceptance (again a tick) and the transfer of consideration.

We don't know if the OP paid a deposit, if she did, its a contract and you are right.

If they didn't, then the contract is not yet formed and the supplier is correctly displaying their price BEFORE the contract is formed, so are fine.

since the OP has not come back, we'll never know.

if you are interested in contract law here is a nice guide

http://www.a4id.org/sites/default/files/user/documents/english-contract-law.pdf

unholyangel

Exile_geordie wrote: »

Just as a simple question here but does the situation change because they were given a quote before the final invoice? I only ask because I have had quotes that have also had on them +VAT before the invoice has come through which is basically the same thing as the OP has had but worded slightly differently

Eh not exactly the same thing. Saying prices are subject to vat doesn't legally mean that the price is excluding vat. It just means the goods/services being offered for sale are not exempt from vat. Its entirely possible to have prices inclusive of vat and still have a disclaimer stating that prices are subject to vat.

However to answer your question, for the purposes of CCRs, that would depend at which point a contract is formed. If you didn't receive the final invoice until after the contract had been entered into then that breaches the CCRs.

BUT even if the processes complied with the CCRs, its in the pricing guidelines etc that any price indication given to consumers should always include vat and may still amount to an unfair practice under the CPRs.

Even where the company is a wholesale/trade supplier, if they also supply to consumers then they need to give the prices inclusive of vat.

unholyangel

martinsurrey wrote: »

The fact you are overlooking is when was the contract formed?

As you will know, the CCRs only apply to contracts, not to quotes.

A quote is NOT a contract, it is an invitation to treat.

An invitation to treat is not binding on the supplier (its the same as products miss priced on a shelf, the retailer doesn't need to honour that price at the till).

for it to become a contract there must be the 3 requirements of a contract.

Offer (clearly there was), Acceptance (again a tick) and the transfer of consideration.

We don't know if the OP paid a deposit, if she did, its a contract and you are right.

If they didn't, then the contract is not yet formed and the supplier is correctly displaying their price BEFORE the contract is formed, so are fine.

since the OP has not come back, we'll never know.

if you are interested in contract law here is a nice guide

http://www.a4id.org/sites/default/files/user/documents/english-contract-law.pdf

My post above (#37) wasn't aimed at you but it answers you also.

Worth noting though that the above examples you give could still amount to an unfair practice - especially given it goes against pricing guidelines and relates to material information. Such as detailed here: http://www3.hants.gov.uk/tradingstandards/tradingstandards-business/ts-business-goods/tsguide-price-marking.htm

When selling to the general public, all pricing information must be clearly legible, unambiguous, easily identifiable, in sterling, and inclusive of VAT and any additional taxes.

Also worth noting theres more than 3 requirements to have a legally binding contract. The main ones are: Offer, acceptance, consideration (which must be valid and cannot be past), intent to form legal relations, capacity to contract and also certainty.